When Did Classical Sculpture Go Out of Practice?

[Coast09]

When did marble and bronze sculpture go out of practice in Italy and Byzantium? I'm aware of the problems that came about with iconoclasm; but, to my knowledge, the latest known works of classical-style sculpture were in the seventh century--long before iconoclasm came into form. Life magazine has, in its online archive, a bronze bust labeled as Emperor Heraclius. The famed Colossus of Barletta is also widely considered to be the seventh-century ruler. When did Dark Age Europe retire this form of honorary representation?

[Maladict]

The famed Colossus of Barletta is also widely considered to be the seventh-century ruler.

 

Really? I've only seen it attributed to various emperors of the Theodosian dynasty.

[Ludovicus]

When did marble and bronze sculpture go out of practice in Italy and Byzantium? I'm aware of the problems that came about with iconoclasm; but, to my knowledge, the latest known works of classical-style sculpture were in the seventh century--long before iconoclasm came into form. Life magazine has, in its online archive, a bronze bust labeled as Emperor Heraclius. The famed Colossus of Barletta is also widely considered to be the seventh-century ruler. When did Dark Age Europe retire this form of honorary representation?

 

 

I don't think the Dark Ages ever visited the Byzantine Empire, at least not as intensely as in the former Western Roman Empire. So the geographic distinction is important.

[Northern Neil]

When we refer to classical sculpture are we talking about sculpture depicting gods, emperors and philoshophers in a standardised classical/military costume, or do we mean the depiction of the human form in a realistic manner? If we mean the former, then I suppose it died out when the related fashions died out, and when the Church banned representations of nudes and semi - nude figures.

 

If we are referring to the realistic and proportional depiction in stone / marble etc, I dont believe it really died out. Here is a bust of the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II Hohenstaufen, dated about 1250:

Interestingly this fellow was literate, wrote poetry and even dabbled in scientific enquiry.

 

By the way, welcome aboard, Coast. When you've time, fill in some of your profile and tell us a bit about yourself!

Edited February 20, 2009 by Northern Neil

[Coast09]

I don't think the Dark Ages ever visited the Byzantine Empire, at least not as intensely as in the former Western Roman Empire. So the geographic distinction is important.

 

The Dark Ages is considered the length of space between 476 (Romulus's removal) and the crowning of Charlemagne in 800. Byzantium and Persia both could be argued as exempt from the travesties that befell the Western realm; nevertheless, much of Western scholarship decline and all but vanished in most parts of Southern, Central, and Western Europe, which made up the heart of the old Roman dominion.

 

Please let there be less nitpicking about this detail or that. The fact is that the plethora of sculptures, and the practice of making them, declined even in Byzantium prior to iconoclasm. When and why did that occur? I'm focused on the matter of royal sculpture, since it is often a (sometimes idealized) clue to what an individual looked like. But I do have an interest in seeing why it fell out of favor even among Byzantine and Italian nobility.

 

The marble and bronze sculptures of even the war-ravaged third and fourth centuries seem to have a rich collection still available.

[Coast09]

When we refer to classical sculpture are we talking about sculpture depicting gods, emperors and philoshophers in a standardised classical/military costume, or do we mean the depiction of the human form in a realistic manner? If we mean the former, then I suppose it died out when the related fashions died out, and when the Church banned representations of nudes and semi - nude figures.

 

If we are referring to the realistic and proportional depiction in stone / marble etc, I dont believe it really died out. Here is a bust of the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II Hohenstaufen, dated about 1250.

Interestingly this fellow was literate, wrote poetry and even dabbled in scientific enquiry.

 

By the way, welcome aboard, Coast. When you've time, fill in some of your profile and tell us a bit about yourself!

 

Wonderful example, Neil. I appreciate the good words. As for the question, I do mean realistic sculpture. The Frederick work is extremely rare for the Late Medieval Era, however. The related fashions point is a good one because it links to the greater question of when Roman fashion itself went extinct in both the Latin and Greek worlds.

[DecimusCaesar]

The traditional cl;assical sculptures (the ones we associate with Greece and Rome) were already changing by the time the Roman Empire was becoming christianized. John Romer mentions the last of the classical statues being sculpted not long after Justinian's reign, although that might be a slight exaggeration considering that heraclius has also been mentioned on this board once before. One thing is obvious is that Classical statues were changing during the last years before Constantine became emperor, this is most noticeable in Diocletian's bust.

[M. Porcius Cato]

With an eye on the Taliban-like sensitivities of the new Christians, I wonder: When was the last classical, heroic nude sculpted?

[Ludovicus]

"Toward the end of the 9th century, Byzantine religious art entered its "second Golden Age," often called the Macedonian Renaissance for the ruling dynasty. The term may be too strong, but it does correctly indicate the extent to which the art of the period, in both subject matter and style, often draws directly and deliberately on the Hellenistic and Roman classical heritage. Monumental art again exhibited relatively naturalistic and strongly modeled three-dimensional figures, often characterized by a restrained dignity and noble grandeur, as in the mosaic of the Virgin and Child (867) still in place in the apse of Hagia Sophia."

 

source:

http://www.crystalinks.com/byzantine.html

 

 

images from this period of classical, even pagan revival:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paris_ps...gr139_fol1v.jpg

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbaville_Triptych

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veroli_casket

[Ludovicus]

http://www.byzantium1200.com/justinia.html

 

Here's an artist's rendering of what the now lost 6th century equestrian statue of Justinian might have looked like. Aside from the head ornament, it looks quite classical to me. Other opinions?

 

If you're an Eastern Roman Empire enthusiast, you'll find the other reconstructions at Byzantium1200.com breath-taking.