Who Owns Antiquity?

[Ludovicus]

In the Jan. 26 issue of the Nation Magazine, Britt Peterson, assistant managing editor of The New Republic, reviews the approaches taken by four authors on this thorny problem:

Here's a link to Peterson's review, "Tales from the Vitrine":

 

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090126/peterson

 

Loot: The Battle over the Stolen Treasures of the Ancient World

by Sharon Waxman

 

Who Owns Antiquity? Museums and the Battle Over Our Ancient Heritage

by James Cuno

 

Catastrophe! The Looting and Destruction of Iraq's Past

by Geoff Emberling and Katharyn Hanson, eds.

 

Thieves of Baghdad: One Marine's Passion to Recover the World's Greatest Stolen Treasures

by Matthew Bogdanos, with William Patrick

Edited January 20, 2009 by Ludovicus

[falkor]

London's tourists are not allowed to take photographs of Londinium's Amphitheatre remains in the basement of the Guildhall; explain that one! (and they charge for entry)

 

The world is corrupt, yet people happily obey petty rules when they are really being conned left, right and centre.

[CiceroD]

At this point it does seem unfair to withhold the Elgin Marbles and the Rosetta Stone from their respective countries.

(No offense to any British members)

 

But where do we draw the line?

 

This logic taken to the extreme would mean that no interesting antiquities would be at our local museums.

And then of course there is that little excuse that some countries are unstable and their treasures would be likely lost.

[Northern Neil]

At this point it does seem unfair to withhold the Elgin Marbles and the Rosetta Stone from their respective countries.

(No offense to any British members)

 

Absolutely no offence taken - for 35 of my 47 years I have held this view. The Elgin marbles are part of a heritage which runs in direct continuity from the times of ancient Greece to the modern Greece of today. The Greeks have consistantly maintained their culture and language throughout the ages, they speak a language not very different from that of Aristotle, and at every social level they identify with the ancient Greece of their ancestry and no - one can dispute that the 'Elgin Marbles' are rightly owned by the Greeks. That said, the British saved the Parthenon pediment sculptures from the ravages of Athenian pollution in the 60's and 70's which all but dissolved the finer parts of many remaining Ancient Greek arts in that city.

 

The Rosetta stone is a different matter entirely. Aside from the Copts, who have little say in the affairs of their country for obscure religious reasons, one cannot trace a direct cultural descent from ancient to modern Egypt, even though the genetic continuity is certainly there. The Egyptians from 300 AD onwards adopted various different religions, cults and systems of writing which have substantially distanced themselves from their ancient civilisation. At the heart of their modern day culture is a system of thought which, at its worst, seeks to destroy everything which it sees as alien, such as the Bamiyan Buddhas. In addition it could be said that the Rosetta Stone is a creation of the Greeks, as it seems to come from the Ptolmaic period of Egypt's history.

 

Regarding the antiquity of Iraq, it is clear that the Iraqis are stewards of a heritage which is vastly multicultural, and the curators of the various Baghdad museums are acutely aware of this, given that the concept of Iraq is but a few decades old. It seems that before recent events unleashed a general free-for-all in that country they did a splendid, impartial job of looking after antiquities which were the property of us all.

 

I shed genuine tears as I listened to a BBC Radio 4 programme aired in 2004, in which the curator of the Baghdad Museum, distraught, commented upon lawless looters ransacking the museum, whilst British and American soldiers looked on dispassionately.

 

This is a complex question, with a very grey and wide central line. I am fortunate that I can merely comment upon that line, and not draw it.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Northern Neil

[CiceroD]

The Rosetta stone is a different matter entirely. Aside from the Copts, who have little say in the affairs of their country for obscure religious reasons, one cannot trace a direct cultural descent from ancient to modern Egypt, even though the genetic continuity is certainly there. The Egyptians from 300 AD onwards adopted various different religions, cults and systems of writing which have substantially distanced themselves from their ancient civilisation. At the heart of their modern day culture is a system of thought which, at its worst, seeks to destroy everything which it sees as alien, such as the Bamiyan Buddhas. In addition it could be said that the Rosetta Stone is a creation of the Greeks, as it seems to come from the Ptolmaic period of Egypt's history.

 

That sounds all well and good but Egypt seems pretty stable

and Egyptians do appriciate the past of their land even though their culture has changed. (i.e. pehaps there should be no artifacts in American museums at all !!!)

 

I'm just saying I wouldn't want to look Dr. Zahi Hawass (I hope I spelled it right) in the face when stating that opinion.

[Melvadius]

I tend to the view that there is no simple or simplistic answer to who 'owns' the past.

 

A lot of what has turned up in the various museums around the world has been looted at one time or another. In many instances during long periods of occupation by what is now considered a 'foreign' power.

 

As has already been noted to a great extent the Elgin Marbles survive today simply because they were 'bought' by Lord Elgin and removed from the Acropolyse during the Ottoman occupation of Greece. There are various arguments about the legality or otherwise of the original purchase but equally about the British Museum being allowed to return them because of its charter of operation.

 

Such arguments could be overcome in time but may need an Act of Parliament to resolve but this is only one example. The Getty and other major museums in America have had a series of embarassing revelations about recent purchases in their collections also being looted material this despite a general requirement for the provenance of such items to be provided (and checked) before they are purchased.

 

There are problems with 'returning' some items to their coutries of origin to take a theoretical example where should an Egyptian statue found on a Roman shipwreck in Maltese waters be displayed - Egypt, Italy or Malta? If it was found 200 years ago and bought by an American Museum do they still have any right to it? At what point if there are further complications to determining 'ownership', including the sale of stolen antiquities does the answer stop being either/or and become who is now best placed to look after it?

 

I suppose my own view is along the lines that with our modern multicutural societies museums should have the ability to exchange representative marterial amongst themselves. However there should ideally also be 'definitive' collections maintained preferably in their country of origin where that is possible or if not then in whichever museum has the best collection which can be used as primary reference collections for further research.

 

Melvadius

Edited February 9, 2009 by Melvadius