Roman Battlefield Found In Germany.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Archaeologists in Germany say they have found an ancient battlefield strewn with Roman weapons. The find is significant because it indicates that Romans were fighting battles in north Germany at a far later stage than previously assumed.

 

The wilds of Germany may not have been off-limits to Roman legions, archaeologists announced on Monday. At a press conference in the woods near the town of Kalefeld, about 100 kilometers south of Hanover, researchers announced the discovery of a battlefield strewn with hundreds of Roman artifacts dating from the 3rd century A.D.

 

 

 

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/german...,596720,00.html

Edited December 17, 2008 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Ursus]

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the find, GPM.

[Kosmo]

Amazing place. Thanks.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

In the article it mentions that "There is sketchy evidence in the histories for some sort of Roman push into German territory in the 3rd century. Historians like Herodian say the Emperor Maximinus Thrax declared war on the Germans, but this is the first evidence he may have actually carried out his threats. "From what sources say, he did push into Germany," says Eric de Sena, an archaeologist at John Cabot University in Rome. "In a way it seems to correspond with the histories."

 

From what I can gather the Romans were already in Upper Germany before Maximus Thrax. In 234 AD the Emperor Alexander Severus had based himself in the Moguntiacum (Mainz) which at the time was the capital of Upper Germany. From here he planned an ambitious offensive campaign but in the end decided negotiate for peace which enraged the legions causing a mutiny which unded up with the death of Severus and his family. From this catastrophe Maximus Thrax who at the time had been placed in charge of raising and training troops for the war against the Germans was declared Emperor by the troops.

 

Wether Thrax did actually push even further into Upper Germany is unclear, he was based in Moguntiacum, which is still some 240km south of recently found battlefield, and the fact that the layout of the battlefield leads the archaeologists to believe that "the Romans attacked the hill from the North suggesting that they were on their way home from a mission even further into German territory" Really does make this a seriously interesting historical riddle.

 

Apparently full scale excavations will commence in March so hopefully we might find something else out about the battle of Harzorn Hill.

[guy]

The wilds of Germany may not have been off-limits to Roman legions, archaeologists announced on Monday. At a press conference in the woods near the town of Kalefeld, about 100 kilometers south of Hanover, researchers announced the discovery of a battlefield strewn with hundreds of Roman artifacts dating from the 3rd century A.D.

 

Thank you for posting this article. This article reminds me of how exciting studying Ancient history can be.

 

In addition, the "Third Century crisis" in Roman history remains for me an enjoyable "great unknown" in Roman history as the primary sources are so thin and the scholarship involving this period is underdeveloped.

 

I am always amazed that the empire avoided total collapse during this period: The Western Empire lasted for two centuries more and the Eastern Empire lasted almost a thousand years beyond that. It is also interesting to learn about the tensions between the growing Christian movement and the dominant Pagan culture during this time.

 

 

guy also known as gaius

[Antiochus III]

My brother recently sent me an article about a Romano-Germanic battle fought somewhere in northern Germany (I'm assuming somewhere between the Rhine and Elbe rivers, the article stated that the battle was fought between near the town of Kalefeld-Oldenrode, but I dont know where that is.) Unfortunately not many useful details are provided, but the artifacts are unusually well-preserved. I'm going to research it more right now. Of course I realize that many of you already are aware of this, but since it's such big news I figured I may as well start a big topic right here in the main forum.

 

AT3G

Edited January 5, 2009 by Antiochus III

[Nephele]

Is this article to be found online? If so, could you please link to it?

 

-- Nephele

[ASCLEPIADES]

Is this article to be found online? If so, could you please link to it?

 

-- Nephele

Salve, Lady N

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

yes it has been on the news for quite some time in Germany now ( 4 or 5 weeks ), a lot of blogs have spoken about it. The discovery is exceptionnal, the CNN news report is far from giving the details : the remains of the battle are so neat that on can see how the roman made an artillery and archery preparation of the terrain, with the arrows all pointing in the same direction ( thus giving the roman position at the start of the battle, in the north ( ! ) of the hill ). Hundreds of arrows heads have been found, dozens of scorpio bolts being also found. Which to me is a bit surprising by the way, because it means that the romans did not try to collect all those precious ammo back from the field : maybe they were somewhat in a hurry with a larger barbarian force in their back ?

[M. Porcius Cato]

This is a really cool discovery. One can almost hear that battle commander say, "At my word, unleash Hell."

[Emperor Goblinus]

Hundreds of arrows heads have been found, dozens of scorpio bolts being also found. Which to me is a bit surprising by the way, because it means that the romans did not try to collect all those precious ammo back from the field : maybe they were somewhat in a hurry with a larger barbarian force in their back ?

 

That's a real possibility; it may explain why they didn't take any territory even though they pierced so deeply into Germania. We may not be ever sure, but it could possibly been one of Rome's first encounters with the large Germanic confederations that plagued the empire from the third century onward. The Romans may have expected only scattered resistance from various tribes, but ended up biting off more than they could chew.

[Nephele]

Is this article to be found online? If so, could you please link to it?

 

-- Nephele

Salve, Lady N

 

Ah, thank you for that link, Asc. I see that this is the same news item that GPM had posted about in December. Am merging topic.

 

-- Nephele

[Viggen]

...as the english speaking media is relatively slow on this, i think Adrian Murdochs Blog is right now the best place to keep you up to date (although expect some german links and text, but he always gives at least an english overview)

http://adrianmurdoch.typepad.com/my_weblog...-revisited.html

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

yes it has been on the news for quite some time in Germany now ( 4 or 5 weeks ), a lot of blogs have spoken about it. The discovery is exceptionnal, the CNN news report is far from giving the details : the remains of the battle are so neat that on can see how the roman made an artillery and archery preparation of the terrain, with the arrows all pointing in the same direction ( thus giving the roman position at the start of the battle, in the north ( ! ) of the hill ). Hundreds of arrows heads have been found, dozens of scorpio bolts being also found. Which to me is a bit surprising by the way, because it means that the romans did not try to collect all those precious ammo back from the field : maybe they were somewhat in a hurry with a larger barbarian force in their back ?

 

This is very interesting excerpt from one of the many blogs on Kalefeld...........

 

The greatest amount of weapons has been found on the northern slopes of the Harzhorn. The way finds are distributed indicates the possibility that part of the slope has been hit by a mudslide that took material with it. The article also stresses the unusual discovery of an obviously unplundered battlefield. Broken wagons, hundreds of missiles sticking out of the ground (not buried too deeply then) and lost equipment must have been visible for years until woods covered the place. One possible explanation the article mentions is that the area was considered taboo. Strange as this may sound to us, the Germanic tribes had beliefs we can only guess at since the Romans seldom mention them (and not everything Tacitus wrote can be taken face value). Though such a taboo had not been invoked for the Varus battlefield, at least not until much later. The question remains unanswered for now.

 

Research of the battlefield has only begun, and every day can bring to light new finds that may change the prospected model of the events.

 

We don't know for sure the size of the Roman troops. Since they brought a train and torsion catapults, it can't have been a small unit, the article says. This is interesting because so far the number of about 1000 men was mentioned in most articles about Kalefeld. It would indeed have been a small troop to send against hostile Germans - Varus had three legions and six auxiliary cohorts, Germanicus six legions (a legion has between 5000-6000 men) plus cavalry, and I'm pretty sure more than one legion would have been needed on a punitive expedition or preventive foray against several united Germanic tribes deep inside German territory.

 

Therefore the thousand men who fought at Kalefeld probably were a sub-unit of a larger army in the surroundings, perhaps on an expedition or the armed escort of an embassy. Even if the presence of Romans can be connected with Maximinus Thrax' camp-aign, I doubt Kalefeld is the site of the Battle of the Swamp. Sure, there might have been swamps in Roman times, extensive agriculture drained many of those, as the Varus battlefield of Kalkriese shows, but it would have been a mere skirmish compared to other battles the Romans fought. Imho, the Romans of Kalefeld either belonged to some different expedition not mentioned in the sources, or there were several military conflicts during the campaign, and the Historia Augusta only mentions the most important.

 

The following scenario seems possible according to the present discoveries, the article says: Roman troops on their way back from the north found the path blocked and fought their way out upward the slopes of the Harzhorn. Obviously the Romans were victorious thanks to their superior technology, but had to retreat to the Leine valley because of the ongoing threat from the Germans. And from there, I suppose, back to Moguntiacum at some point

Edited April 19, 2009 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

New discoveries seems to indicate a larger front, and thus maybe a larger force too... So who knows the truth ? Maybe we'll know more after this summer's investigations. Anyway it is a great discovery on the Kalkriese aniversary year !