Water found at Mars.

[Klingan]

Well I thought this was worth posting

 

Water found at Mars, BBC.

[Zanatos]

Woo water is found, all that means to me is that hydogen and oxygen bonded. I doubt DNA was made there.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Well I thought this was worth posting

 

Water found at Mars, BBC.

Salve, K.

Those drops are presumably by far the most expensive water sample ever; Sextus Julius Frontinus would have been duly impressed.

 

Finding H2O was one of the main goals of the Phoenix mission; this critical finding comes little more than two earth months after landing at "Green Valley" over the Vastitas Borealis close to the Heimdal crater (more or less the equivalent to the SW coast of Greenland in Earth) ie, well within the Martian North Polar Circle at their early summer (like our early July). This area was specifically selected for its expected relatively high water content; and the timing to profit from the continuous sunlight (midnight sun phenomenon) for at least another 4 or 5 weeks.

 

The twin rovers Spirit and Opportunity (landed respectively in the craters Gustav and Eagle at opposite sides on the Martian equatorial zone since early 2004) haven't been able to find water so far.

[Faustus]

Woo water is found, all that means to me is that hydogen and oxygen bonded. I doubt DNA was made there.

 

Few planetary scientists or astronomers are concerned with the discovery of life on Mars, although it would be a high thrill and tell us much about the adaptability of life to harsh environments, but are more concerned with with the sustainability of life being transplanted there.

 

It would actually be better for us if no life were discovered which we might have an effect on in our future activities on the surface of Mars.

[Klingan]

Woo water is found, all that means to me is that hydogen and oxygen bonded. I doubt DNA was made there.

 

Few planetary scientists or astronomers are concerned with the discovery of life on Mars, although it would be a high thrill and tell us much about the adaptability of life to harsh environments, but are more concerned with with the sustainability of life being transplanted there.

 

It would actually be better for us if no life were discovered which we might have an effect on in our future activities on the surface of Mars.

 

 

A very accurate but seldom noted point!

 

Ps. I must admit that the point on Frontinus made me laugh a little Asc

[Northern Neil]

I believe that life by nature is an 'All or Nothing' phenomenon. If Mars were at any time able to sustain life, it would now be all over the place. I do not think that the cold conditions on Mars would in themselves have extinguished life. Life has a knack of adapting to, and then slowly changng its environment. the only thing that could really kill it off, in my opinion, is either extremely low or extremely high temperatures. Mars has neither.

[Faustus]

I believe that life by nature is an 'All or Nothing' phenomenon. If Mars were at any time able to sustain life, it would now be all over the place. I do not think that the cold conditions on Mars would in themselves have extinguished life. Life has a knack of adapting to, and then slowly changng its environment. the only thing that could really kill it off, in my opinion, is either extremely low or extremely high temperatures. Mars has neither.

I agree with all you said except for the ubiquitousness(?) of it. It has probably been quite balmy on Mars in its past, and once the big chill set in life, if it exists there, probably has retreated to supportable conditions like (but not limited to) the heated water phenomenon in out ocean bottoms. Certain examples exist in Antarctica, but they have at least seasonal reprieves. On Mars below the surface would be a good opportunity for sustained life. Consider the amount of heat escaping from the core of the earth and how it heats subterranean chambers, or the amount of ambient heat just a few feet below the Earth's surface which increases linearly as one goes deeper.

[Ursus]

I would have been more impressed if they had discovered beer.

[ASCLEPIADES]

I believe that life by nature is an 'All or Nothing' phenomenon. If Mars were at any time able to sustain life, it would now be all over the place. I do not think that the cold conditions on Mars would in themselves have extinguished life. Life has a knack of adapting to, and then slowly changng its environment. the only thing that could really kill it off, in my opinion, is either extremely low or extremely high temperatures. Mars has neither.

I agree with all you said except for the ubiquitousness(?) of it. It has probably been quite balmy on Mars in its past, and once the big chill set in life, if it exists there, probably has retreated to supportable conditions like (but not limited to) the heated water phenomenon in out ocean bottoms. Certain examples exist in Antarctica, but they have at least seasonal reprieves. On Mars below the surface would be a good opportunity for sustained life. Consider the amount of heat escaping from the core of the earth and how it heats subterranean chambers, or the amount of ambient heat just a few feet below the Earth's surface which increases linearly as one goes deeper.

Actually, what Phoenix found was water ice, predicted at least since 2002 by the Mars Odyssey orbiter, as Vastitia Borealis is included in the Martian northern permafrost cap that presumably goes as south as 60

[caldrail]

I believe that life by nature is an 'All or Nothing' phenomenon. If Mars were at any time able to sustain life, it would now be all over the place. I do not think that the cold conditions on Mars would in themselves have extinguished life. Life has a knack of adapting to, and then slowly changng its environment. the only thing that could really kill it off, in my opinion, is either extremely low or extremely high temperatures. Mars has neither.

 

Life is incredibly tenacious, although its more complex forms are very fragile. Its also noticeable that the chemical structure and physical laws of this universe are conducive to the development of organic life - and thats the problem, because the conditions are hard to come by.

 

A planet must form quickly to gather an atmosphere or the gas is stripped away by the solar wind. It should have an iron core to form a protective magnetic field or again, the atmosphere is lost. Mars has already lost its own, and Venus is slowly losing atmosphere steadily (it dumps its gas on us occaisionally, one more arguement in the global warming debate ). On top of that, the planet must be free of bombardment, have sufficient water and sunlight, and orbit within a narrow band of acceptable temperatures. Its a pretty tough list of conditions. The famous equation for the probable existence of intelligent life is way too optimistic.

[ASCLEPIADES]

...Venus is slowly losing atmosphere steadily (it dumps its gas on us occaisionally, one more arguement in the global warming debate ).

Do you actually suggest the Venusian gases are occasionally being dumped on Earth, across at least some 26 million miles (more than 3,000 times the Earth's diameter) of open space?

 

And that such phenomenon contributes to the ongoing terrestrial global warming?

 

Really?

[caldrail]

...Venus is slowly losing atmosphere steadily (it dumps its gas on us occaisionally, one more arguement in the global warming debate ).

Do you actually suggest the Venusian gases are occasionally being dumped on Earth, across at least some 26 million miles (more than 3,000 times the Earth's diameter) of open space?

 

And that such phenomenon contributes to the ongoing terrestrial global warming?

 

Really?

 

Strictly speaking yes it does. When the earth is in line behind Venus, the solar wind is delivering the gas it strips away in our direction. The amount is open to question - I would expect it to be somewhat small but perhap there's some expert opinion somewhere that might confirm that. The venusian atmosphere is composed of greenhouse gases and therefore makes a contribution to our own woes, but again, I'm being a lttle tongue in cheek and I wouldn't expect it to make a huge difference - perhaps I'm wrong about that? It would be interesting to note how often the planets are aligned in this manner. As for th distance, so what? Space is a vacuum - it contains next to nothing, and if the solar wind, a stream of particles emiited by the sun during the normal course of its existence, is pointed the right wy the gas will cross the gap effortlessly. Planets do share material sometimes. We have found lunar and martian rocks (well, tektites and pebbles really) on earth, sent here almost as shrapnel from the bombardment of significant meteorite strikes. The reverse will be true. Somehere on Mars it might be possible to find a remnant of the K/T Event for instance. Mars is the best example of atmosphere loss. Unable to protect its collection of gas molecules, the solar wnd stripped it away long ago. You might also like to know that earth loses atmosphere in this way, although the loss is minimised by the magnetic field that forces the solar wind around us.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Strictly speaking yes it does. When the earth is in line behind Venus, the solar wind is delivering the gas it strips away in our direction. The amount is open to question - I would expect it to be somewhat small but perhap there's some expert opinion somewhere that might confirm that. The venusian atmosphere is composed of greenhouse gases and therefore makes a contribution to our own woes, but again, I'm being a lttle tongue in cheek and I wouldn't expect it to make a huge difference - perhaps I'm wrong about that? It would be interesting to note how often the planets are aligned in this manner. As for th distance, so what? Space is a vacuum - it contains next to nothing, and if the solar wind, a stream of particles emiited by the sun during the normal course of its existence, is pointed the right wy the gas will cross the gap effortlessly. Planets do share material sometimes. We have found lunar and martian rocks (well, tektites and pebbles really) on earth, sent here almost as shrapnel from the bombardment of significant meteorite strikes.

Any link? You really have to check on your sources; your ideas about the cosmic proportions are simply absurd.

 

Here comes a frequently quoted model for the Solar System, "The Earth as a Peppercorn":

Sun-a standard bowling ball 8 inches wide.

Venus & Earth-two peppercorns, diameter 0.08 inch

Both peppercorns would be seven yards away at their closest point and some 33 yards away at their farthest.

 

No wonder the statements of the scientific community on GW mean so little to you.

 

You need not to worry; I can simply not imagine any feasible way Venus' atmosphere would be ever able to have the minimal effect over the climate on Earth.

 

That's humans' job, after all.

Edited August 3, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES

[Faustus]

No wonder the statements of the scientific community on GW mean so little to you.

 

You need not to worry; I can simply not imagine any feasible way Venus' atmosphere would be ever able to have the minimal effect over the climate on Earth.

 

That's humans' job, after all.

 

Salve Amici,

 

Not an expert here, but I do keep up constantly with the subject. There is little doubt that elements from the high atmosphere of Venus reach earth as they are ablated by the solar wind. What would preclude that, or a least mitigate it is the magnetic field of Venus. However Venus is much closer to the sun (67 vs 93 m. miles), and a propitious alignment would no doubt deliver a small quantity of anything in the upper atmosphere to the Earth's own atmosphere. However when we think of planetary quantities just as when we think of geological time frames, these quantities may seem small but may be large by an individual human's "mental" standard. I think that's what the smiley may have implied.

 

FROM THIS LINK

"Venus is sometimes characterized as Earth's 'twin' because of its close proximity in solar system location (~ 0.72 AU heliocentric distance compared to 1.0 AU) and its similar size (~ 6053 km radius compared to - 6371 km radius), but other close resemblances are few. Besides the more obvious atmospheric composition and pressure differences, and the related extreme temperatures at the surface described elsewhere in this volume, events in the history and evolution of the interior of Venus have left that planet with practically no intrinsic magnetic field. The consequences for the space environment and atmosphere are numerous, ranging from the presence of an 'induced' magnetotail in the wake, to an ionosphere and upper atmosphere that are constantly being scavenged by the passing solar wind."

 

BTW - Even perfect logic can deceive

 

Faustus

 

Edit added: NOT VENUS but consider the application of the situation seen here

http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/screen/heic0303a.jpg

And

Watch this

for some perspective. You may have seen this before when I first posted it back in May but it still thrills, and the music is a delight. Edited August 3, 2008 by Faustus

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve Amici,

 

Not an expert here, but I do keep up constantly with the subject. There is little doubt that elements from the high atmosphere of Venus reach earth as they are ablated by the solar wind. What would preclude that, or a least mitigate it is the magnetic field of Venus. However Venus is much closer to the sun (67 vs 93 m. miles), and a propitious alignment would no doubt deliver a small quantity of anything in the upper atmosphere to the Earth's own atmosphere. However when we think of planetary quantities just as when we think of geological time frames, these quantities may seem small but may be large by an individual human's "mental" standard. I think that's what the smiley may have implied.

Salve, F. Not an expert here either.

When I was talking about cosmic proportions, I was trying to be overtly ironic; my apologies if that wasn't the case.

 

What precludes the elements of the atmosphere of any planet from reaching any other is called distance.

 

The orbit of the International Space Station is on average at some mere 340 km from the sea level (Perigee:331.0 km; Apogee: 341.9 km); even so, that distance is more than enough for getting far more perfect vacuum conditions than those ever possible at any laboratory on Earth's surface.

 

Minimun Earth-Venus distance is about 40,000,000 km.

 

The Interplanetary medium space is called a vacuum for a good reason: average density is about 5 particles/cm3 near the Earth (less than 0.00 000 000 000 000 000 001 kg/m3) and decreases by an inverse square law farther from the Sun; "particles" basically means hydrogen atoms.

 

Just for comparison purposes, Earth atmosphere's average density at sea level is 1.48 kg/m3;

 

...and one gram (a mole) of hydrogen has (by definition) aprox. 602 214 000 000 000 000 000 000 atoms (Avogadro's number).