Maty Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 My guess is Anopheles did the deed. That's the mosquito that carries malaria, and as Germanicus had been way down the Nile on a cruise before he was taken ill, he may well have been given his fatal dose there. Symptoms of malaria can first show up in some cases up to a year after infection, though a month is more common. Headache and diarrhea are early symptoms liver failure (remember those spots?) and delirium occur later - hence the foaming at the mouth. However, periods of remission are common between the cycles, all of which fits with G's symptoms. Tacitus takes a long hard look at the poisoning charge - remember this guy was a forensic lawyer when he was not writing history - and remarks that it would have been enormously hard to pull off. Also no-one gained particularly from the execution of the most popular man in the empire. He was already Tiberius' successor and Tiberius was both old and conscientious. Augustus ordered Tiberius to adopt Germanicus as his son and heir and as Tiberius made Germanicus' son his successor, it seems T. was diligent in this regard. It also means that T. stuck to the succession plans of Augustus, so anyone else killing off Germanicus to become emperor in his place was mistaken. I'd urge caution when looking for devious motives behind unexplained deaths in antiquity. Remember a burst appendix was generally fatal, as were what would today be minor infections. Add strokes, cancers - and indeed typhus - and anyone could drop unexpectedly dead without foul play being required. That's what Julius Caesar the dictator's dad did one morning as he pulled on his boots - proof that Julians were dropping dead unexpectedly long before anyone had a serious reason to expedite the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 And compounding that truth was the fact that the people of the day had (for the most part) no idea why they were all dropping dead. Explaining such things with elaborate plots, scandals and even gossip run amok helped everyone accept early death; perhaps without needing to fear for their own impending mortality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Salve, M. My guess is Anopheles did the deed. That's the mosquito that carries malaria, and as Germanicus had been way down the Nile on a cruise before he was taken ill, he may well have been given his fatal dose there. Symptoms of malaria can first show up in some cases up to a year after infection, though a month is more common. Headache and diarrhea are early symptoms liver failure (remember those spots?) and delirium occur later - hence the foaming at the mouth. However, periods of remission are common between the cycles, all of which fits with G's symptoms. Why Malaria? As far as I know, diarrhoea couldn't be attributed to it, and skin spots (purpura?) are not common. Sialorrhea ("mouth foaming") is quite unspecific and neither fever (malaria's hallmark) nor delirium (mental confusion) were reported. Besides, by the first century AD, Malaria was presumably as common in Italy as it was in Syria, so Germanicus' travel wouldn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segestan Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Hello everyone. I was just wondering if the sources said anything about who murdered Germanicus? I don't think it was Caligula. Not sure though, but he wiould had been a young boy at the time. What do you all think happened to him and who did it? I believe it could have been poison that killed him. Not sure. Well it was Tiberius who had Germanicus removed from the legions , sent to the east to " superintend the eastern frontiers and provinces" however he died soon after his arrival. No one knows for sure but Tiberius has to be a serious suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Julius Camillus Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Seneca seemed to be a hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Augusta Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Yes, but speculating is more fun than that answer. May I apologise with suitable grovelling-at-feet to you, Scipio, for my less than helpful post a few weeks ago! The day-to-day troubles of women of a certain age often take us unawares. Thirty years of discussing the Julio-Claudians has tipped me over the edge, I think. I'm usually such a 'nice' gal - as most of our members would tell you - so ignore me and extend to me your forgiveness. But as to your question about Germanicus' death, I am with Maty and others - I really cannot accept that he was murdered, and there are several older threads where you will find useful discussions on the topic. Pax, Amice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Yes, but speculating is more fun than that answer. May I apologise with suitable grovelling-at-feet to you, Scipio, for my less than helpful post a few weeks ago! The day-to-day troubles of women of a certain age often take us unawares. Thirty years of discussing the Julio-Claudians has tipped me over the edge, I think. I'm usually such a 'nice' gal - as most of our members would tell you - so ignore me and extend to me your forgiveness. But as to your question about Germanicus' death, I am with Maty and others - I really cannot accept that he was murdered, and there are several older threads where you will find useful discussions on the topic. Pax, Amice! Welcome back, Augusta! Your coolness has tipped the cool scale. -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio. Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Yes, but speculating is more fun than that answer. May I apologise with suitable grovelling-at-feet to you, Scipio, for my less than helpful post a few weeks ago! The day-to-day troubles of women of a certain age often take us unawares. Thirty years of discussing the Julio-Claudians has tipped me over the edge, I think. I'm usually such a 'nice' gal - as most of our members would tell you - so ignore me and extend to me your forgiveness. But as to your question about Germanicus' death, I am with Maty and others - I really cannot accept that he was murdered, and there are several older threads where you will find useful discussions on the topic. Pax, Amice! Lemme get this straight. You insert a fair, honest, accurate opinion and then feel the need to apologize because it's too mundane/realistic for my conspiracy-theory teenage taste? Don't worry about it Anyway, wow I haven't checked up on this thread forever. Does anyone know of any good primary or secondary writings on AD 15-40 other than Tacitus and Suetonius? I'm aware that Suetonius was racy and gossipy, but that makes him even more interesting to read alongside Tacitus, who as far as I know was more level-headed and (as far as those notorious Roman historians go) pretty unbiased. The consensus about Dando-Collins's Blood of the Caesars seems to be that it is radical and of questionable value. Someone said that Seager's biography of Tiberius is good; any other opinions on this? I'm looking into writing historical fiction about this stuff ... Am I going to need to fill in a lot of gaps with my own theories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar CXXXVII Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Does anyone know of any good primary or secondary writings on AD 15-40 other than Tacitus and Suetonius? Here is a list of some secondery sources - Tiberius Caesar By David Shotter The Reign of Tiberius By Frank Burr Marsh Tiberius and the Roman Empire By Charles Edward Smith Tiberius the Politician By Barbara Levick Tiberius. By Ernst Kornemann Tiberius, the Tyrant By John Charles Tarver Tiberius By Allan Massie Tiberius By Gregorio Mara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) Anyway, wow I haven't checked up on this thread forever. Does anyone know of any good primary or secondary writings on AD 15-40 other than Tacitus and Suetonius? I'm aware that Suetonius was racy and gossipy, but that makes him even more interesting to read alongside Tacitus, who as far as I know was more level-headed and (as far as those notorious Roman historians go) pretty unbiased. In general terms, the available sources are not alternative but complementary. Edited December 1, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus_Superbus_Bongus Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I have always been facsinated with Germanicus. I think he could of been a great leader. He had many good quLITIES FROM WHAT I read. Also, I read he died of natural causes but that Tiberius was suspected of poisoning him. We will never know the truth. Hello everyone. I was just wondering if the sources said anything about who murdered Germanicus? I don't think it was Caligula. Not sure though, but he wiould had been a young boy at the time. What do you all think happened to him and who did it? I believe it could have been poison that killed him. Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legate Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 The problem is, this issue will always be subject to speculation. Piso and the paranoid Tiberius seem like candidates but Sejanus seems most likely. The man wanted power for himself, and nothing would stand in his way until his actions got the better of him in the end. How many times have we seen this in history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylla Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 The problem is, this issue will always be subject to speculation. Piso and the paranoid Tiberius seem like candidates but Sejanus seems most likely. The man wanted power for himself, and nothing would stand in his way until his actions got the better of him in the end. How many times have we seen this in history? The problem is, the real question must be "is there any evidence that Germanicus was killed at all?". With the available evidence, the answer must be "No"; period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legate Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 The problem is, this issue will always be subject to speculation. Piso and the paranoid Tiberius seem like candidates but Sejanus seems most likely. The man wanted power for himself, and nothing would stand in his way until his actions got the better of him in the end. How many times have we seen this in history? The problem is, the real question must be "is there any evidence that Germanicus was killed at all?". With the available evidence, the answer must be "No"; period. It was noted that Germanicus skin showed evidence of poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompeii Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Hello everyone. I was just wondering if the sources said anything about who murdered Germanicus? I don't think it was Caligula. Not sure though, but he wiould had been a young boy at the time. What do you all think happened to him and who did it? I believe it could have been poison that killed him. Not sure. Germanicus was poisoned by the governor of Syria Gnaeus Piso and was ordered by Tiberius. According to Seutonious "The Twelve Caesars" Later on tried by the senate and executed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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