Dionysus

[Nephele]

This afternoon I went to see The Bacchae, brilliantly performed in NYC's Rose Theater by the National Theatre of Scotland.

 

While this version of Euripides' play had many entertaining modern touches -- Cadmus and Tiresias first appear as a pair of elderly (and somewhat inebriated) dapper gentlemen in tailored suits with tastefully Bacchic-garlanded top hats, and the Maenads are a hard-rocking chorus of soul sisters -- the book didn't deviate much from the William Arrowsmith translation with which I was already familiar. Indeed, the specially commissioned book upon which this production had been based had been literally translated by classics professor Ian Ruffell.

 

The play brought some questions to mind, that I presume can be answered here by our mythology buffs. So, here goes...

 

In the play, Dionysus is repeatedly referred to as a "new god". In fact, even though his mortal mother was a princess of Thebes (where the action of the play takes place, on Dionysus' return to the city of his birth), references are made to his being a "foreign" god because he has been away in "the East" for many years, building up his cult. Dionysus is credited with being the inventor of wine, so...

 

Questions #1: Does all this imply that wine-making was an activity imported by the Greeks from what they perceived as the decadent East? That the Greeks had established agriculture for a long period before they discovered (or imported) the art of wine-making?

 

TIRESIAS: First of these is the goddess Demeter, or Earth--

whichever name you choose to call her by.

It was she who gave to man his nourishment of grain.

But after her there came the son of Semele,

who matched her present by inventing liquid wine

as his gift to man. For filled with that good gift,

suffering mankind forgets its grief; from it

comes sleep; with it oblivion of the troubles

of the day. There is no other medicine

for misery.

 

Question #2: Dionysus is portrayed in Euripides' play (including this version I saw today with the aptly-cast Alan Cumming in the role), as being quite androgynous (or bisexual). Did the ancient Greeks perceive this androgyny (or bisexuality) of the wine-god as tying in with the recognized effects of wine as being a releaser of inhibitions?

 

-- Nephele

[Maty]

I'll have a crack at this one, since I've been doing a bit of mythology lately. I can't give detailed answers to all the questions, but can add a few pointers at least!

 

In the play, Dionysus is repeatedly referred to as a "new god". In fact, even though his mortal mother was a princess of Thebes (where the action of the play takes place, on Dionysus' return to the city of his birth), references are made to his being a "foreign" god because he has been away in "the East" for many years, building up his cult. Dionysus is credited with being the inventor of wine, so...

 

Dionysus had a pretty weird birth, being taken from the womb of his dying mother (you spotted the link between 'Semele' and 'seed'?) and being 'born again' from the thigh of Zeus.

 

Questions #1: Does all this imply that wine-making was an activity imported by the Greeks from what they perceived as the decadent East? That the Greeks had established agriculture for a long period before they discovered (or imported) the art of wine-making?

 

Dionysus' 'exile' may reflect his importation as a foreign God - possibly Thracian. However, you are right that wine was cultivated in the east before in Greece, where the earliest record is from the mycaenean period, whilst it was already established in the east in the neolithic.

 

Question #2: Dionysus is portrayed in Euripides' play (including this version I saw today with the aptly-cast Alan Cumming in the role), as being quite androgynous (or bisexual). Did the ancient Greeks perceive this androgyny (or bisexuality) of the wine-god as tying in with the recognized effects of wine as being a releaser of inhibitions?

 

Since sex in the ancient world was somewhat less gender oriented - (roles being determined by giver and receiver) relaxation of inhibitions was perhaps not necessary for bisexual activities any more than for heterosexual ones, insofar as matters would have been less perceived in those terms. That said, D. certainly represents the presence and reconciliation of opposites, including male and femaleas his androgynous appearance indicates. Hesiod also refers to wine as the 'god's ambivalent gift'.

 

hope this helps at least somewhat.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve.Amici

Questions #1: Does all this imply that wine-making was an activity imported by the Greeks from what they perceived as the decadent East? That the Greeks had established agriculture for a long period before they discovered (or imported) the art of wine-making?

Dionysius' Eastern origin is referred from the very beginning. Probably at first the East wasn't considered so decadent, as virtually any culture predating the Greeks was oriental to them. Dionysius' and Pentheus' common Phoenician ancestor Cadmus was considered not only to have founded Thebes, but also to have brought the alphabet and some other cultural improvements. Cadmus' name probably came from the Semitic root qdm, "the east". Dionysius himself was most frequently a positive influence than not.

The oriental (Persian) xenophobia was probably a later development, after the Hellenic victory at the Medic Wars and specially the humiliation from the definitive Athenian surrender at the end of the Peloponnesian War, the latter just the year before the Bacchae first play.

 

Question #2: Dionysus is portrayed in Euripides' play (including this version I saw today with the aptly-cast Alan Cumming in the role), as being quite androgynous (or bisexual). Did the ancient Greeks perceive this androgyny (or bisexuality) of the wine-god as tying in with the recognized effects of wine as being a releaser of inhibitions?

That's a quite interesting interpretation; anyway, Dionysius wasn't the only androgynous deity at Olympus (ie, Hermes or Athenea), and bisexuality was quite prevalent.

His effeminacy came from long before Euripides. Androgynos is a well attested epithet in Dionysian cult "as one doing both active, male things and passive, female ones ." (Suidas ); another one is "Euast

[Nephele]

Thank you, Maty and Asclepiades, for your enlightening posts! I was particularly interested in your comments on the names to be found in the myth and play.

 

Dionysus had a pretty weird birth, being taken from the womb of his dying mother (you spotted the link between 'Semele' and 'seed'?) and being 'born again' from the thigh of Zeus.

 

Interesting connection! Although I'm not sure that the Greek name of "Semele" is actually related to the Latin word semen. At least, that's the etymology I'm assuming -- perhaps incorrectly -- that you meant. I'm not too familiar with Greek -- is there a Greek word meaing "seed" that is similar to "Semele"?

 

Digressing further on the subject of names in the play, Euripides has Dionysus at one point in the play comment on the meaning of the name of King Pentheus -- that meaning being "sorrow", with Dionysus musing on how aptly Pentheus has been named, considering what is about to happen to him.

 

Cadmus' name probably came from the Semitic root qdm, "the east".

 

I can't help but note the connection between the name of Cadmus and the Hebrew name of "Kedem" (spelled qof-dalet-mem), and also meaning "from the east".

 

-- Nephele

[ASCLEPIADES]

Interesting connection! Although I'm not sure that the Greek name of "Semele" is actually related to the Latin word semen. At least, that's the etymology I'm assuming -- perhaps incorrectly -- that you meant. I'm not too familiar with Greek -- is there a Greek word meaing "seed" that is similar to "Semele"?

Here comes the Online Etymology Dictionary:

 

"Semele

daughter of Cadmus and mother of Dionysus, from L., from Gk. Semele, a Thraco-Phrygian earth goddess, from Phrygian Zemele "mother of the earth," probably cognate with O.C.S. zemlja "earth," L. humus "earth, ground, soil."

[Maty]

Actually I was going back further, to proto-Indo-European where words with sai- or se- roots are often to do with seeding, or scattering (which is why 'semen' and 'missile' have the same linguistic origin, apparently). When looking at the names of Goddesses and other mythological beings, we probably have to go back further than classical Greek for the same reason that many modern names date back to millenniums ago.

 

So I'm looking here at languages such as Hittite (sai or siaj), Old Slavic (saja), Tokharian (saiwa), proto Germanic (seda) and yup, early Italic including Latin. Change the 's' to a 'z' amd you have most of the Afro-Asiatic languages covered as well. This may be reaching a bit, but then zarah (seed) and Sarah may have a common root as well. (Sarah =princess = of royal seed).

 

However, I'm getting well out of my territory and into yours Nephele, so I'll back out now and await your corrections!

[Nephele]

However, I'm getting well out of my territory and into yours Nephele, so I'll back out now and await your corrections!

 

I wouldn't presume to correct any of that, Maty! Many thanks for your further illumination on proto-Indo-European roots.

 

I especially found interesting your theory on a connection between the word zarah ("seed") and the name "Sarah" ("princess = royal seed"). Although the Hebrew word for "seed" that I'm most familiar with is zera and that's spelled differently from "Sarah" (the first being zayin-resh-ayin, the second being shin-resh-hey), your theory on the implied meaning of the name "Sarah" certainly seems to be borne out in the following passage from the Torah, where god changes Sarai's name to Sarah while telling Abraham that Sarah shall be a "mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be of her." (Genesis 17:15-16)

 

-- Nephele