Carthaginian influence on the Consulate

[Minerva]

"The Cretan institutions resemble the Lacedaemonian. The Helots are the husbandmen of the one, the Perioeci of the other, and both Cretans and Lacedaemonians have common meals, which were anciently called by the Lacedaemonians not phiditia' but andria'; and the Cretans have the same word, the use of which proves that the common meals originally came from Crete. Further, the two constitutions are similar; for the office of the Ephors is the same as that of the Cretan Cosmi, the only difference being that whereas the Ephors are five, the Cosmi are ten in number. The elders, too, answer to the elders in Crete, who are termed by the Cretans the council. And the kingly office once existed in Crete, but was abolished"

 

I was aware of the Lacedemonian tradition which claimed that Lycurgus took Crete for as a model when fashioning the Spartan constitution but I've also read that there is no definite proof that it was so and that it was more likely to be another instance of the Hellenic propensity to claim their institutions to have been derived from exterior sources. Are their any ealier sources that mention dual kingship in Crete?

[ASCLEPIADES]

I was aware of the Lacedemonian tradition which claimed that Lycurgus took Crete for as a model when fashioning the Spartan constitution but I've also read that there is no definite proof that it was so and that it was more likely to be another instance of the Hellenic propensity to claim their institutions to have been derived from exterior sources. Are their any ealier sources that mention dual kingship in Crete?

I think MPC's expertise is urgently needed.

[ASCLEPIADES]

There's some evidence that Tyro (Carthage's motherland) had sometime a dual rule too.

Here come TF Josephus, Adversus Apionem, Liber I, cp. XXI:

 

"I will now add the records of the Phoenicians... "Nabuchodonosor besieged Tyre for thirteen years in the days of Ithobal, their king; after him reigned Baal, ten years; after him were judges appointed, who judged the people: Ecnibalus, the son of Baslacus, two months; Chelbes, the son of Abdeus, ten months; Abbar, the high priest, three months; Mitgonus and Gerastratus, the sons of Abdelemus, were judges six years; ."

[Minerva]

"...among the Italian people a magistacy was shared by more than one person. The Umbriuns had two Marones, the Sabines eight octovirs, and the Oscans two Meddices. But it is not certain wether any of these groups represent the principle of collegiality...Thus it cannot be ascertained wether the romans borrowed or invented the principle of two collegiate magistrates." - H.H Scullard, A history of the Roman world 753 to 146 B.C

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, Amici.

 

It seems that at least from 683 BC to 594 BC (Solon Reforms), long before the Roman Consular system, the Athenian Archons fit the same basic model; a multiple executive power under annual service, even if they were always more than two (nine at the end).

 

Even earlier (753 BC) the "perpetual archonship" (a kingship) was limited to 10 years.

 

It's quite possible that at least for some time the Archons of other Hellenic polis were multiple too, but I haven't been able to confirm that.

 

Bryaxis expertise is urgently needed.

[Minerva]

It's quite possible that at least for some time the Archons of other Hellenic polis were multiple too, but I haven't been able to confirm that.

 

Thebes i believe had several boetarchs but i don't know their nature.

[ASCLEPIADES]

It's quite possible that at least for some time the Archons of other Hellenic polis were multiple too, but I haven't been able to confirm that.

 

Thebes i believe had several boetarchs but i don't know their nature.

We can find indeed many similarities with the Roman Republican system.

 

The boeotarchs (Βοιοτάρκαι) were the executive power of the Boeotian League, one of the most successful of the many Hellenic poleis' confederacies; their number varied through time, mostly from fourteen to seven (eleven at the acme of the Peloponnesian War); each polis provided one boeotarch, annually elected (αίρετεΐζ) by their respective popular assembly (έκκλησΐα) except by Thebes which brought two, as it was almost always the most powerful member of the League. For the same reason, the chief commander at war (Boeotian Archon, άρχων έν κοινώ Βοιώτων) seems to have been most of the time one of the Theban boeotharcs (alternating with the other).

 

The government of each individual polis was more or less uniformed among them, most of the time a rigid hereditary aristocratic oligarchy with some democratic elements. Each polis has its own eponym Archon (άρχων) and 2 or 3 Polemarchs (πολέμαρχος) (two in Thebes). The whole League had four senates or boules (Βουλή); I

Edited July 20, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES