Make yobs learn Latin.

[DecimusCaesar]

Fluency in latin didn't stop Brutus and Cassius stabbing Caesar!

[Faustus]

Undersrtood, but some transference of civilized behavior can over time create changes in human behavior.

 

 

Faustus

[Kosmo]

Not even the determined measures that I've seen as a kid taken to ensure school attendance worked. And when this kids came they created mayhem and were a danger for the other kids. Maybe special schools for them are an option. I believe this has less to do with the economy, but with their connections with others: parents, extended family, friends, neighbors etc.

[docoflove1974]

Not even the determined measures that I've seen as a kid taken to ensure school attendance worked. And when this kids came they created mayhem and were a danger for the other kids. Maybe special schools for them are an option. I believe this has less to do with the economy, but with their connections with others: parents, extended family, friends, neighbors etc.

 

Many studies have shown just this...the phrase that 'it takes a villiage to raise a child' is true in the sense that the child has to learn from all those around him/her of what is acceptable behavior in the society, and more importantly what is not. Many of these kids (baring true learning disorders) never had that education.

 

The phrase in Italian and Spanish for calling someone rude is 'maleducato/maleducado'--explained to me once that your mamma didn't educate/raise you right. Sometimes, that's too true!

[ASCLEPIADES]

Teaching hoodies Latin and ancient Greek could help turn them away from knife crime, London Mayor Boris Johnson said yesterday.

He said education was the key to helping disadvantaged kids keep out of trouble.

Speaking at his first press conference at City Hall since being elected last month, Mr Johnson said: "I think there's a huge amount we can do in London by promoting the learning of languages including Latin." He added: "I would like to see not only that but I would like to see ancient Greek. Latin can help with all languages." Boxing clubs could also help keep youngsters out of trouble, he said.

Cambridge University classics expert Will Griffiths welcomed the move last night.He said: "Forcing everyone in London to learn Latin won't solve every problem but it will improve education and open doors for people."

Salve, Amici

 

"Speaking two days after the murder of 15-year-old schoolgirl Arsema Darwit

[Faustus]

Not even the determined measures that I've seen as a kid taken to ensure school attendance worked. And when this kids came they created mayhem and were a danger for the other kids. Maybe special schools for them are an option. I believe this has less to do with the economy, but with their connections with others: parents, extended family, friends, neighbors etc.

 

Many studies have shown just this...the phrase that 'it takes a villiage to raise a child' is true in the sense that the child has to learn from all those around him/her of what is acceptable behavior in the society, and more importantly what is not. Many of these kids (baring true learning disorders) never had that education.

 

The phrase in Italian and Spanish for calling someone rude is 'maleducato/maleducado'--explained to me once that your mamma didn't educate/raise you right. Sometimes, that's too true!

 

How can these kids be educated, when they are not first being "socialized" by their parents? Does this socialization come first, or is it a normal part of their elementary school education along with parental guidance? I guess it shouldn

[M. Porcius Cato]

How can these kids be educated, when they are not first being "socialized" by their parents?

 

Disruptive behavior at home has a very low correlation with disruptive behavior at school. Kids who learn that their moms and dads aren't push-overs can and do find that their teachers are--and vice-versa. I think it's unrealistic to think that children can be inoculated against bad behavior.

[docoflove1974]

Many studies have shown just this...the phrase that 'it takes a villiage to raise a child' is true in the sense that the child has to learn from all those around him/her of what is acceptable behavior in the society, and more importantly what is not. Many of these kids (baring true learning disorders) never had that education.

 

The phrase in Italian and Spanish for calling someone rude is 'maleducato/maleducado'--explained to me once that your mamma didn't educate/raise you right. Sometimes, that's too true!

 

How can these kids be educated, when they are not first being "socialized" by their parents? Does this socialization come first, or is it a normal part of their elementary school education along with parental guidance?

 

That's what the phrase means, Faustus...that you haven't been educated at home, aka you haven't been taught about what your society deems 'right' and 'wrong'...that's part of the first education that a child receives, long before any formal education.

Edited June 9, 2008 by docoflove1974

[Faustus]

How can these kids be educated, when they are not first being "socialized" by their parents?

 

Disruptive behavior at home has a very low correlation with disruptive behavior at school. Kids who learn that their moms and dads aren't push-overs can and do find that their teachers are--and vice-versa. I think it's unrealistic to think that children can be inoculated against bad behavior.

 

Is it possible that this is a generation of "kids" with parents who for one reason or another are busy, busy, busy, possibly too busy for parenting and civilizing their "kids"? The parents may or may not be "push-overs" with their children, but when their children get into trouble (with neighbors, in school, or in other situations, which call for discipline), the parents oftentimes show hostility to the messenger, be that a teacher or a neighbor. In that way some/many of these kids are being taught "push-back" because their parents loudly defend them in their bad behavior.

 

To take an actual positive role in disciplining, or the education of their kids is just more work for the parent(s). Many are single parents, and survival is as much as they feel they are able to manage. The fact that a single parent failed in marriage or never married in the first place indicates a parental failure of a previous generation. Alcoholism or drug addiction also play a role in an

Edited June 9, 2008 by Faustus

[M. Porcius Cato]

Is it possible that this is a generation of "kids" with parents who for one reason or another are busy, busy, busy, possibly too busy for parenting and civilizing their "kids"?

 

Sure, that's possible too, but it doesn't change my broader point against the idea that kids can be "civilized" or "socialized" by their parents. If kids could be "socialized" by their parents, then their improved behavior at home should transfer to school. But the finding from parenting interventions as well as correlational studies is that improved behavior at home doesn't even translate into improved behavior at school, let alone a lifetime of good behavior on subways, street corners, etc.

 

I think the positive point is that children respond to situation-specific contingencies and the likelihood of transfer is related to how similar novel situations are to the situations where the good behavior was learned. There's nothing particularly radical about this idea -- it's just what we find in all kinds of learning phenomena across all kinds of species.

[Faustus]

Many studies have shown just this...the phrase that 'it takes a villiage to raise a child' is true in the sense that the child has to learn from all those around him/her of what is acceptable behavior in the society, and more importantly what is not. Many of these kids (baring true learning disorders) never had that education.

 

The phrase in Italian and Spanish for calling someone rude is 'maleducato/maleducado'--explained to me once that your mamma didn't educate/raise you right. Sometimes, that's too true!

How can these kids be educated, when they are not first being "socialized" by their parents? Does this socialization come first, or is it a normal part of their elementary school education along with parental guidance?

That's what the phrase means, Faustus...that you haven't been educated at home, aka you haven't been taught about what your society deems 'right' and 'wrong'...that's part of the first education that a child receives, long before any formal education.

 

Sorry Doc, I wasn't clear at all. I meant to agree with you: the village thing means the parents must be able to accept information from citizens of the village without hostililty, not that the village takes on the whole job. If the parents haven't done the initial work, from what does it procede?

 

They (the parents) must also accept that their earlier training, if it has been defective or lacking, can be inproved upon in the school setting. The socialization of the child in school, a structured environment, needs to be seen as an extension of that earlier teaching/learning of the child by the parents, in advance. If the parents have failed to do an adequate job and If they are sensitive about their failure for one reason or another (they weren't adequate to the task, or they were too busy, guilty feelings, others...) there can be no extension; it is a non-sequitor.

Edited June 9, 2008 by Faustus

[docoflove1974]

Sorry Doc, I wasn't clear at all. I meant to agree with you: the village thing means the parents must be able to accept information from citizens of the village without hostililty, not that the village takes on the whole job. If the parents haven't done the initial work, from what does it procede?

 

They (the parents) must also accept that their earlier training, if it has been defective or lacking, can be inproved upon in the school setting. The socialization of the child in school, a structured environment, needs to be seen as an extension of that earlier teaching/learning of the child by the parents, in advance. If the parents have failed to do an adequate job and If they are sensitive about their failure for one reason or another (they weren't adequate to the task, or they were too busy, guilty feelings, others...) there can be no extension; it is a non-sequitor.

 

Oops, yeah, true. As to your other point about parents feeling like they're too busy to socialize (etc.) their kids...part of me wants to say that 'being too busy' is a relative term. For example, my paternal grandmother constantly worked, had 7 kids by 2 husbands, and still all of them turned out 'ok'; there were no hoodlums, despite living in a poor, rural area. With this, one would argue that the central issue is discipline; one could take this argument in various directions. On the other hand, I know of cases where despite the parent(s) best intentions, they truly are so busy with work (and, in the cases that I'm talking about now, necessarily so) that they cannot effectively discipline the kids themselves. In these cases, there have to be other members of the family and of the community who step in and help the parent(s) along.

[Faustus]

As to your other point about parents feeling like they're too busy to socialize (etc.) their kids...part of me wants to say that 'being too busy' is a relative term. For example, my paternal grandmother constantly worked, had 7 kids by 2 husbands, and still all of them turned out 'ok'; there were no hoodlums, despite living in a poor, rural area. With this, one would argue that the central issue is discipline; one could take this argument in various directions. On the other hand, I know of cases where despite the parent(s) best intentions, they truly are so busy with work (and, in the cases that I'm talking about now, necessarily so) that they cannot effectively discipline the kids themselves. In these cases, there have to be other members of the family and of the community who step in and help the parent(s) along.

To partly explain that situation, something that is going on today regardless of a family's economic situation is the schism between the kids and adults. The young are with their friends all day, and when they come home (if there is a parent in the house), except for a brief period spent at the table eating (if that actually occurs) go to their room (if not back to the street corner) where they have a virtual media center (TV, audio, computer, phone) which again separates them from the adult world and positive pursuits.

 

Both adults and youngsters are tacitly saying "please leave me alone". Conversations, when they occur, are carefully crafted to avoid sensitive areas which might go into awkward subjects and then become "heated" or contentious. An example of this is what many times happens in marriages. Eventually very little conversation takes place when the partners consider how it could go off course into areas that have been "worn out" previously, rendered

[Faustus]

[A] best-selling author of books for teenagers, sometimes visits juvenile detention centers in his home state of New Jersey to hold writing workshops and listen for stories about the lives of young Americans.

One day, in a juvenile facility near his home in Jersey City, a 15-year-old black boy pulled him aside for a whispered question: Why did he write in "Somewhere in the Darkness" about a boy not meeting his father because the father was in jail? Mr. Myers, a 70-year-old black man, did not answer. He waited. And sure enough, the boy, eyes down, mumbled that he had yet to meet his own father, who was in jail.

 

As we celebrate Father's Day tomorrow, we should reflect upon a sad fact: It is now common to meet young people in our big city schools, foster-care homes and juvenile centers who do not know their dads. Most of those children have come face-to-face with their father at some point; but most have little regular contact with the man, or have any faith that he loves or cares about them.

When fatherless young people are encouraged to write about their lives, they tell heartbreaking stories about feeling like "throwaway people." In the privacy of the written page, their hard, emotional shells crack open to reveal the uncertainty that comes from not knowing if their father has any interest in them. The stories are like letters to unknown dads

[Kosmo]

The phrase in Italian and Spanish for calling someone rude is 'maleducato/maleducado'--explained to me once that your mamma didn't educate/raise you right. Sometimes, that's too true!

 

In Romanian a very strong accuse of bad behavior it's "you don't have those 7 years from home" hinting at the preschool education as decisive.

The family and the environment are the most important factors and this are hard to control by public policies in a society where everybody lives in anonymity. The school can do little but to keep them disciplined inside.