Roman Paganism

[Zeke]

Well Paganism and its impact on the Roman Empire keeps comming up in other debates so I think I will start a debate about Paganism so we can get it off our chests

 

THIS IS ALL MY OPINION SO NO ONE TAKE IT OFFENSIVE

 

To start I am a Roman Pagan and I am fully confident of that I started to be one when my dad died two years ago. I asked myself what type of Religion do I want to be what do I belief in....does spirtuial power even exist?? I looked at the history books, certain mythologies and stuff and I came to the conclusion that, Chriasianity isn't for me because I don't like the "Authroian" nature of it. Wicca isn't for me because well I don't believe in their magic stuff and their tarrot and the whole dark rebelliong against soceity thing. So I looked at the ancient roots of old religions. And I relised that they was some spirtual power ready to be awakened in the long forgotten Pagan Religions of the Old Roman Empire.

 

So within about 3 months I had totally converted to the Roman/Greeco Pagan Religions of old. Let me just give you a basic outline of what I believe and why I am a Roman Pagan.

 

What I believe of how religion works

1. I believe in alot of science lets just esabalish that things are governed by science and the number of atoms in an element which makes compounds and things and all the rest, graviy, why things happen etc.

 

2. That yes, Humans evolved from Apes, spirtual things didn't create humans

 

3. Humans created religion, but it was human energy, (all things have a bubble of energy around them) that created the existance of supernatural things that cannot be explained. Example: Human energy never dies it stays on this earth so with commbinations of human energy certain spirts formed, and Gods, Goddesss and their beings came after. Souls are not energy, there just the essense of life that is IN LIVING things not stones and rivers. But Plants, animals, fugi and humans.

 

4. There are three worlds: This world, the spirtual world/afterlife and the past.

This world is what we humans live in composed of the Earth and our universe. Spirts live in our world as do energy admited by all things.

The Spirtual World/after life is like the happiest places on earth. It really depends on what Religion your belong to and whats kinds of Good places and bad places their are in your religion. Humans can go here only in deep spirtual trances in my opinion.

The past is what has happened from the beging of Earth since energy has always inhabbited all things. Though it was Human's energy that first created the conecpt of Religion and Gods and Goddeses. Anything that happened in the past from 5 seconds ago to 5 years ago to 500 years ago effects humans to this day.

 

5. I believe that human personality energies molded together a number of diffrent gods and goddeses from diffrent regions in a commbination of spirtual energy, explaining why each region of the world always had religion and certain diffrent gods and such. So you must repspect the spirtual things of what region you are going into unless your are opposed to it.

 

6. In the example of Chrianisty, Christanity almost took over the world and is in nearly every country today, I think the resons of this is because so many energies of Christian believers went into the one Hebrew God that he gained more power in the world. When people stop believing energy is taken away sorta of like messing with the atoms of elements. Your just messing with energy. And if you are not a Christian and your a Pagan your energy goes to whatever you believed in. If your an Atehiest it just ceases to be.

 

NOW that I have explained energy I will explain what I believe, what I worship and the future in my eyes of Roman Paganism.

 

After all my ranting what exacly do I believe???

 

1. I believe in 12 main Gods and several minors ones from Greek and Roman Classical Religion-Dii Indigites, the deities native to Rome at its founding. I also belief in several forgien Gods that were incoporated into the Roman system to please. Dii Novensiles, foreign deities who were either fully assimilated into the pantheon or otherwise associated with Roman religion.

 

2. Spirits that inhabbitat certain trees and rivers.

 

3. Reverance toward Mother Earth (Gaia) and her creation.

 

4. Ansestors.

 

5. Several Holidays of the Roman Religion which I have to incoportate into my religion.

 

In the future hopfully Roman Paganism will refound in my view the only way this will happen is if the few believers in Roman Gods come together and pool resources to build temples and places of worship they offer public services to the comman people and show that Roman Paganism can be trusted in the eyes of the world, help people and hopfully a reformed preisthood.

 

That is what I believe.

 

What do you belief and how do you back up WHY you belief.......................................

Thanks,

sorry about spelling

Zeke

[Zeke]

I also have several shrines in my home and a whole room deidcated to praying and sacrficing. To add to that Sacrficing is just taking the energy of a gift......Wine, Flowers, objects etc. and giving it to the Gods. How is that done through a complex ritual of praying and singing and showing reverance. The energy of the object that would normally take a long time to manifest itself into something of spiritual nature is directly sent to the Gods.

Zeke

[Ursus]

I suppose I'm one myself. But in mixed company I prefer to talk of it only from a historical/academic perspective. I'll save more personal reflections for crowds that are more receptive to it.

 

I find myself a little out of touch with the greater "pagan" community, honestly. Some of these people are a little... out there. I've found I prefer general Romanophile communities. Whether we're Christians of various sorts, pagans or various sorts, or agnostics, we can all find something in Rome to appreciate.

[Zeke]

Yes I agree most of the so called "Pagans" I meet are really out there and most fallow Wicca. They are heavly into magic and secret societies all of which don't appiel to me.

Zeke

[Moonlapse]

Personally, I don't believe in any religion or any sort of mysticism. I realize that my perception of reality is to true reality what a map is to the actual terrain.

 

I do respect people who have true faith in what they believe.

[Fatboy]

I believe in a selection of ancient Gods from Greek, Egyptian, Phonecian culture etc, but I can't say I'm very serious about it.

I have several little wooden figures representing various dieties which I burn incense in front of and kind of pray to but really, if I was about to get run over by a train my thoughts would not be

" help me Zeus! " it would be " *****, I'm dead "

I really use it as a form of meditation and as a way of externalising my problems.

Turning over some control over the aspects of your life you can't control to some sort of higher power, imaginary as it may be, seriously helps the human mind cope with stress ( and its a great cop out -" well its not my fault- it was Baal!" )

I think that the human mind may well need to believe in some form of mythical nonsense to accept the world without freaking out.

All the ancient polyatheisms are cool cos they were non judgemental and simply provided lessons and explanations to help people get through the day, unlike the monoatheisms which have being making peoples lives a misery for centuries with their bullsh*t dogma.

I'll repent on my deathbed though..just in case

[Primus Pilus]

I'll repent on my deathbed though..just in case

 

LOL, According to the Catholics... this would be perfectly acceptable. I don't think it matters though, if it turns out in the end that Christianity was the right way to go, I think everyone will end up in 'hell' anyway. I mean does anyone truly follow the teachings of Jesus?

[Fatboy]

I suppose you meet the odd person who say they do, but they're always scary nutcases with a nasty glint in their eye. If thats whos going to heaven we're probably better off in hell.

[Fatboy]

Whoa,

while roaming around the forum I just noticed this last statement of mine was a bit harsh even for me.I should probably have put a at the end of it or something.

I'll just point out that although strictly religious people very often ARE dangerous simply by nature of their blind faith, those of you out there who simply live by Jesus's ( or Mohammed, or whatever ) teachings and don't have any other crazy agenda's are invariably good, kind people and more power to ya if your'e one of these. I still think the pagan Gods were cooler though

[Zeke]

ALSO since I did this post I have reformed my Roman Pagan ideas. I have more logical philoshphy now though I still worship the same gods. Sometime when I have time I will explain it.

 

Zeke

[Primus Pilus]

Would be interesting to see your refinements Zeke. I guess that's the nice thing about such an old, diverse and ungoverned religion, you are allowed the personal freedom to define it within your own belief system.

[Zeke]

Indeed if my religion ever comes back again....I will probably be one of its front runners and since I am fiding myself I can bend the religion seeing as how their is evidecne of practice but not that much, so I can anaylize it and shape it if I want....there is no docturine saying I have to belief a certain way.

[paolo]

All religions are the same, they just change the names of the people, places and things to achieve the same goal. Fighting over religions is like fighting over which language is the best. Obviously everyone has their preferred ways of relating, but do we have to say one is better than another ?

 

All world religions, in their 'original forms' teach love, tolerance and humanity. Any version one finds contrary to that is a politically perverted version. Those latter versions are so distorted, they no longer represent the original religion in a valid form.

 

If more people took a deep breath and considered this, we could find something a lot more sensible to have wars over...like perhaps, undisguised coveting of other peoples' property *smiles*...well at least it would be honest.

[Ursus]

Well, I for one DON'T believe all the religions are the same and teach the same things. Different religions have different goals and values.

 

I for one don't see Roman paganism or many other pagan systems inherently proscribing "love, tolerance and humanity" to its adherents. That assigns a "moral" system to the religion that simply didn't exist. To equate religion with morality is a modern fallacy. Roman religion concerned itself with the rituals and such by which a community or household connected with its deities to secure their favor. Morality had little to nothing to do with how an adherent propitiated his/her deities, spirits and ancestors. The Romans were not unconcerned with morals, but these they left to philosophers, law makers and other agents of society to ponder over.

 

The separation of religion from morality is what I consider one of the strengths of Roman paganism. It means that religion is how people relate with divinity, while "morality" so construed is how people relate to society. And I find universal and unconditional "love" and "tolerance" as moral ideals to be overrated, honestly. There are a great many individuals in the world I'll never love or tolerate.

[Zeke]

Ursus has a point there. Roman Paganism is not all about love and trust (though those are some of my morals) because though I don't know about other Roman Pagans but I relize that people arn't perfect and they can't ever be...Pandora's curse will always be there in all though horrible vices like jelousy, betrayel, misturst, backstabbbing etc.

 

Thats why in my opionion many Christians in their quest to become "sinless" are being hyprotical, because I know many Christians who are backstabbing gossipers who only put a good show on on the outside but on inside they are horrible evil people who don't give a ***** about people.

I know many Pagans like this as well so its not just Christians...People will always have vices and evil thoughts and desires even if it is small it will be there.

 

Ironically enough my grandfather was an Athiest and many religious groups persacuet Athiests because they have no "Morals" when in reliaty my grandfather was the most respected man in the community beloeved by his neighboors as an honest, decent, humble and kind man. And just because he wasn't a Christian or a Pagan or a Buddist or whatever didn't mean that he was going to die young or be poor for the rest of his life. He made it to the ripe old age of 90 and accumalated ALOT of money through his chicken farm.

 

As with Ursus there are people in the world that I shall never like because there just evil people in my opinion. When Christians try to love everyone is useless because they are just going to go home and talk bad about them behind their back.

 

And also I think that not all religions are the same.....because they don't have all the same messages...Christians teach to litterally worship a guy who live 2,005 years ago and during Roman Pagan times the you worshiped many dead guys in the forms of your ansestors and dead emperors. In Buddism you try to listen to a man who reached ultimate peace with himself and with Judisim your're still waiting for the ultimate comming of the guy that you will worship after he does die after his comming.

 

Some religions you worship one god some you worship many, some you worship a thought some you worship something like the "divine energy source of life." There are all different and thats what makes them exciting and unique!