Arles Find: Bust of Caesar

[Ludovicus]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-gener...esar.Bust/PARIS

[Faustus]

A representation of Caesar at his "oldest" age as a man, seems more the intent than the "oldest" surviving extant marble bust of Caesar from his time. I wonder, which is it? (or both?)

[Primus Pilus]

A representation of Caesar at his "oldest" age as a man, seems more the intent than the "oldest" surviving extant marble bust of Caesar from his time. I wonder, which is it? (or both?)

 

Agreed, the former would seem to be the case. The artist at least seems to have been among the more accurate with the representation of Caesar's hair line. Most of his busts give him a rather healthy head of it, while this presents a rather thin layer.

[Melvadius]

A representation of Caesar at his "oldest" age as a man, seems more the intent than the "oldest" surviving extant marble bust of Caesar from his time. I wonder, which is it? (or both?)

 

Agreed, the former would seem to be the case. The artist at least seems to have been among the more accurate with the representation of Caesar's hair line. Most of his busts give him a rather healthy head of it, while this presents a rather thin layer.

 

 

The Australian ABC news version of this story finishes with the following comment that possibly make things clearer:

 

"I suspect the bust was thrown in the river after he was assassinated because it would not have been good at that time to be considered a follower of his," said French archaeologist Luc Long, who directed excavations at the underwater site.

 

"In Rome you don't find any statues of Caesar dating from the time he lived. They were all posthumous," he added.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05...n=entertainment

[Primus Pilus]

Indeed. Considering the subtle differences between typical posthumous representations and this bust, I'm left with the impression that the artist may have had direct visual evidence for his work. Could be the fault of the photography, lighting and/or simple personal perception, but I do find it interesting.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Doesn't look that much like the Tusculan bust that was also supposed to have been a living likeness. I think this story may develop further over time.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Doesn't look that much like the Tusculan bust that was also supposed to have been a living likeness. I think this story may develop further over time.

 

I agree, how do they know it's Caesar? Does it actually have his name engraved somewhere on the bust, because the article isn't very clear as to how they ascertained it was Caesar.

 

For all we know it could just be some wealthy citizen of Arles who just happened to have a receding hairline as well.

 

 

 

Can't really see the resemblance myself.

 

 

[DecimusCaesar]

Here's a link about the find from Times Online - The Face of Julius Caesar? Come off it!

 

Mary Beard - Don's Life : Caesar

 

Even if it isn't Caesar it's till a wonderful find.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Thanks for the link to Mary Beard's article, DC. Another point is that the bust appears to be of the type that drops into a nude statue (hence, much longer and no indication of toga). Have a hard time believing Caesar would have commissioned such a portrait to commemorate founding of Arles.

[G-Manicus]

The face doesn't seem long enough to be Caesar.

Edited May 15, 2008 by G-Manicus

[Fedor]

What a great find. I wonder if this bust is more accurate about Caesar's appearance? Because it looks slightly different from the bust we are all used to seeing. In this bust Caesar to me looks more war like.

[Northern Neil]

What a great find. I wonder if this bust is more accurate about Caesar's appearance? Because it looks slightly different from the bust we are all used to seeing. In this bust Caesar to me looks more war like.

To me this bust looks quite different to the the ones I am used to seeing of Caesar. The two or three others I have seen, as well as some representations on coins, all seem to concur with each other, whereas this chap is clearly someone else altogether. I am no expert on sculpture, but the style to me looks second century. The find is indeed wonderful, and it is easy to see that the person on which this is sculpted was a real individual. But was it neccessary for the archaeologists to announce it as Caesar's bust simply to get a headline?

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

French state television produced a show yesterday of which about one third was dedicated to the Arles finds and the portrait of Caesar. In fact the discovery happened in an area of the Rhone river where almost no find had been done before, be it on land or under water yet archaeologists knew there must be something because of a quote by Ausonius who said the city had been built on the two sides of the river.

 

The portrait was found all by itself but near other pieces of stone which appears to come from building devastated by an invasion around 240 AD known from literary sources. The Neptune statue ( which to me could also have been the river Rhone deified ) was made around 210 if we believe the dedicatory indication which praise the three simultaneous Augustus, something which only happened once in roman history.

 

As for the bust of Caesar itself once you see it under all aspects it is indeed a bit more believable that it is Caesar. Most pictures given in the newspapers distort it quite a lot and thus make it harder to recognize. In any case it is a republican verist portrait which in itself is enough to interest us

[M. Porcius Cato]

But the fact that this is on television at this point is what makes the whole business fishy. The normal procedure among researchers is to submit their findings to peer-reviewed journals, where important questions about methods can be raised and addressed. Once the report has been accepted by the journal, the media is alerted to the findings, and journalists wait until a set date to announce those findings to their readers and viewers. When this procedure is ignored, we end up with cases like the cold fusion debacle.

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

Indeed I agree with you MPC. The tv show showed scientists from the discovery team and others from the local ( and quite rich ) museum of Arles and they all agreed, but I'm going to send an e-mail to one of my former teacher who's an expert on ancient roman sculpture and conservator of roman antiquities at Brussels' Royal Art and History Museum.