The Gladiator's Graveyard

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

I saw THIS on MPC's Sextus Roscius link and thought it would be of interest to some of our members.

 

It's a very interesting and informative documentary on the life and death of the Gladiator.

[Lost_Warrior]

Woa this is awesome!! Thanks for posting!!!

 

The documentary was very well done, I thought. Enough 'show' to keep it interesting, and a good bit of information as well.

 

One thing I noticed, they make small mention of the "scissor" (a rather unusual type of gladiator to my knowledge). They show him with a crescent shaped blade, but I had always read that he would have fought with a two bladed weapon. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[Lost_Warrior]

"Scissores"

 

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Not much is known about the Scissores, from what I can gather some say he was similar to the Secutores. The Secutor was equipped with a smooth helmet, manica, a oblong shield and a gladius. While others describe him like your picture shows, as using a special short sword called a scissores. This sword had two blades (that looked like a pair of open scissors but without a hinge). It is speculated that they attempted to trap their opponents weapon between the twin blades in order to disarm them.

 

The one thing that most of the sources seem to agree on is that his opponent was more than likely the Retiarri.

[caldrail]

Woa this is awesome!! Thanks for posting!!!

 

The documentary was very well done, I thought. Enough 'show' to keep it interesting, and a good bit of information as well.

 

One thing I noticed, they make small mention of the "scissor" (a rather unusual type of gladiator to my knowledge). They show him with a crescent shaped blade, but I had always read that he would have fought with a two bladed weapon. Can anyone shed some light on this?

There's some variation in interpretation, and the scissores was one of a number of gladiatorial classes (I don't know any of the others) introduced toward the late empire when arena combat was in decline. It was therefore an effort to breathe life into a dying genre (pun intended).

 

Notice that these late gladiatorial classes were intended for show. The purpose was no longer for two men to entor into a professional bout and fight until one man surrendered, collapsed, or died. It was now entirely spectacle, and the general idea was for two men to slug it out causing each small wounds rather than a quick clean thrust to end it. Personally, I suspect the increased visible bloodiness of later times did little to preserve the industry, since by that time fewer people were interested - the old excitement of gladiatorial combat was gone - and in any case the influence of christianity was making itself felt which introduced the idea that shedding blood was wrong.

[Lost_Warrior]

You're right, Caldrail (and the video addressed this quite nicely. There were several erm...'interesting' weapons introduced towards the end of the Empire).

 

I'm wondering if BOTH types of weapons were used? The scissores I posted could do some real damage, if used in a particular way, but it would be difficult to use in that way due to it's odd design. Frightening, but not practical. As far as I can figure, it would produce shallow wounds, and maybe some nice gashes.

[Antiochus III]

This video was amazing. One thing I would still like to know is, did the spectators do a thumbs up or thumbs down for death? I've heard both but I've never seen evidence either way. Is anyone an expert on this?

 

Antiochus III

[Lost_Warrior]

As far as I can tell, no one really knows. The primary sources all say "turned thumb" and "pressed thumb" but that could mean several different things. The images that we see are often from the Renaissance and later...and their accuracy is questionable.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

This video was amazing. One thing I would still like to know is, did the spectators do a thumbs up or thumbs down for death? I've heard both but I've never seen evidence either way. Is anyone an expert on this?

 

Antiochus III

 

HERE'S a discussion we had a while back about this question, although many different and plausible answers are given I think the true answer is still pretty inconclusive.

[Crispina]

I saw THIS on MPC's Sextus Roscius link and thought it would be of interest to some of our members.

 

It's a very interesting and informative documentary on the life and death of the Gladiator.

 

 

Thank you for posting the link to the documentary. Not only did I enjoy that, but I bookmarked the site and have been enjoying other Timewatch programs and documentaries at that site. Especially, Terry Jones and "Medieval Life" (I'm in the wrong forum, sorry). Watched every one of them, then "Hidden Rome". I believe this may have been on TV,tho; but I enjoyed it again.

[caldrail]

You're right, Caldrail (and the video addressed this quite nicely. There were several erm...'interesting' weapons introduced towards the end of the Empire).

 

I'm wondering if BOTH types of weapons were used? The scissores I posted could do some real damage, if used in a particular way, but it would be difficult to use in that way due to it's odd design. Frightening, but not practical. As far as I can figure, it would produce shallow wounds, and maybe some nice gashes.

Exactly. Thats what the games organisers wanted - lots of minor wounds to heighten the drama of the fight. I do actually think this was counter-productive, because there added visual variety of these new weapons was useful for theatrical purposes, collecting wounds is going to slow the fight down.

 

The scissores has a practical use, in that it forms a sort of 'arm-shield' for defence, and one that can catch an opponent unaware by virtue of the blade at the end. other than that I agree with your opinion.

[Lost_Warrior]

The scissores has a practical use, in that it forms a sort of 'arm-shield' for defence, and one that can catch an opponent unaware by virtue of the blade at the end. other than that I agree with your opinion.

 

Are you talking about the arm guard with the crescent blade? If so, I agree with you.

 

The two bladed variety could be used to 'catch' the opponent's weapon, but I can't see it catching anyone by surprise.

[caldrail]

Think about it. You're fighting an opponent in a professional bout, one on one, to strict rules whilst the referee looks on. You're not playing about - it might be entertainment but this is a real sword fight. Your opponent thrusts - you parry - he thrusts again - you have to use your shield to deflect it - and then while you're effectively blinded by your own shield and concentrating on the whereabouts of his sword.......

 

Thats just an example, and I know it sort of suggests swordfighting is a bit like a game of tennis, but understand that combat is all about being quicker, stronger, sneakier than the other guy. Try it. Pick a fight with an experienced fighter. For him its easy because he doesn't need to think about it. He's practised his skill and acts instinctively, so if a gap presents itself he will exploit it. The same principle applies to the scissores.

[Lost_Warrior]

I know exactly what you mean Caldrail, but I don't see how it applies to that specific weapon. What I mean is, I don't know how that double bladed sword would be used, practically speaking. It appears to have no advantage other than show, and many practical disadvantages.

[caldrail]

You hit the nail on the head - it is for show. Its the visual appearance as an exotic weapon that mattered more in the late empire. Such exotic weaponry wasn't entirely new - from the mid empire at least they were using a peculiar sword, with four steel 'knitting needles' as sharp pointy bits arranged in a 2x2 box layout (I believe it was called the quadrent, and had some religious significance?). By the late empire the old style professional bout had gone out of fashion. A straightforward no-nonsense sword-fight was no longer considered enough to please an audience, so the use of these strange and sometimes awkward weapons was both the visual interest and also the inability of the combatants to land a fatal blow. This served two purposes. Firstly, it meant that lanistii didn't lose a well trained and profitable commodity, but also because it dragged the fight out. This last point means in turn that fewer gladiators were required. In the late empire fighters were becoming viewed as heathen murderers by the increasing christian influence in society, and there less of them available, so for a full fun-packed day at the arena it was necessary to stretch the combats out as much as possible. Notice that after Trajan the huge celebratory games were scaled down considerably. In the late empire, there's very little emphasis on them in roman commentary too compared to what we read of during the Julio-claudian era. There wasn't the same money involved anymore, fights were much more expensive to stage, so instead of staging huge combats and mass spectacles, the professional bouts arranged for games had been reduced to a bloody pantomime involving these peculiar fantasy weapons.