Famous Julii

[Ingsoc]

Any record of who this family member was? And if I am understanding correctly, Caesar's line died off. And those after were not from the Julii family he was from.

 

Caesar's only daughter died few years before him without children, after him death all the Julian Caesarian family were descended from his sister throught Augustus. Nero was the last of the male line thought be may have survive by few females.

[Maty]

Any record of who this family member was? And if I am understanding correctly, Caesar's line died off. And those after were not from the Julii family he was from.

 

Caesar's only daughter died few years before him without children, after him death all the Julian Caesarian family were descended from his sister throught Augustus. Nero was the last of the male line thought be may have survive by few females.

 

If I may split a hair here - Julia daughter of Caesar did have a child. The father was Pompey. Popblem was that it was a difficult birth which basically wrecked Julia's health. She died, and the child did not long survive her. So better make that 'died without surviving children'. Your point remains correct of course, but given that having the child killed Julia, it's worth mentioning that she had one.

[cornelius_sulla]

What about Gaius Julius Agricola, stepfather of the historian Tacitus, ravager of Britain? Was he a 'true' member of the Julii, or the descendant of a manumitted slave/freeman?

Edited June 17, 2008 by cornelius_sulla

[ASCLEPIADES]

What about Gaius Julius Agricola, stepfather of the historian Tacitus, ravager of Britain? Was he a 'true' member of the Julii, or the descendant of a manumitted slave/freeman?

Salve, CS

 

Article on gens Julia, William Smith, Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology (1870) pg 643 :

"In the times of the empire we find an immense number of persons of the name of Julius ; but it must not be supposed that they were connected by descent in any way with the Julia Gens ; for, in consequence of the imperial family belonging to this gens, it became the name of their numerous freedmen, and may have been assumed by many other persons out of vanity and ostentation".

 

And specifically on CJ Agricola, here comes P C Tacitus, De vita Iulii Agricolae, cp. IV:

 

Gnaeus Iulius Agricola, vetere et inlustri Foroiuliensium colonia ortus, utrumque avum procuratorem Caesarum habuit, quae equestris nobilitas est. Pater illi Iulius Graecinus senatorii ordinis,

 

"Cnaeus Julius Agricola was born at the ancient and famous colony of Forum Julii. Each of his grandfathers was an Imperial procurator, that is, of the highest equestrian rank. His father, Julius Graecinus, a member of the Senatorian order"

[Caesar CXXXVII]

So, the last "pure" Iulii (by the male line) were Caesar himself and his daugther . The Julio-Claudians were descendants of (by the male line) Gaius Octavius and Tiberius Claudius Nero . No more "pure" Iulii or "Caesars" .

By the female line and by direct adoption the Caesars survived until c. 70 CE. All other Iulii were without any family connectios with Caesar descendants, although you can find, in the net, many people who think that they have it....

 

BTW - I have found some material about the female line of the (adopted, ie Julio-claudians) Caesars and there is a good possibility that it survived till the second century and even penetrated into the Antonines ! See - http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showto...259&hl=bomb

Edited November 10, 2008 by Caesar CXXXVII

[Ingsoc]

So, the last "pure" Iulii (by the male line) were Caesar himself and his daugther . The Julio-Claudians were descendants of (by the male line) Gaius Octavius and Tiberius Claudius Nero . No more "pure" Iulii or "Caesars" .

By the female line and by direct adoption the Caesars survived until c. 70 CE. All other Iulii were without any family connectios with Caesar descendants, although you can find, in the net, many people who think that they have it....

 

I'm not aware that the Romans made a legal distinction between natural born and adopted children, Augustus and Tiberius were as much a legitimate Julii as Julius Caesar. the last male member was Gaius (Caligula) and the last male descendant of Augustus was Nero (however he was not of the Julii but of the Claudii).

 

The last female Julii was Agrippina Minor and the last descendant of Augustus was Junia Calvina who died in 79 (Suetonius, Vespasian, 23.4)

[Caesar CXXXVII]

So, the last "pure" Iulii (by the male line) were Caesar himself and his daugther . The Julio-Claudians were descendants of (by the male line) Gaius Octavius and Tiberius Claudius Nero . No more "pure" Iulii or "Caesars" .

By the female line and by direct adoption the Caesars survived until c. 70 CE. All other Iulii were without any family connectios with Caesar descendants, although you can find, in the net, many people who think that they have it....

 

I'm not aware that the Romans made a legal distinction between natural born and adopted children, Augustus and Tiberius were as much a legitimate Julii as Julius Caesar. the last male member was Gaius (Caligula) and the last male descendant of Augustus was Nero (however he was not of the Julii but of the Claudii).

 

The last female Julii was Agrippina Minor and the last descendant of Augustus was Junia Calvina who died in 79 (Suetonius, Vespasian, 23.4)

 

 

The legal distinction between natural born and adopted children is not the isseu here . The fact is that Octavius was adopted by Caesar (by will) and was not a Caesar by himself . The same is true for all the Julio-Claudians . These are the facts regardless judsicial distinctions . Yes, they were Julii as Septimius Severus was a Nerva !

[Ingsoc]

The legal distinction between natural born and adopted children is not the isseu here . The fact is that Octavius was adopted by Caesar (by will) and was not a Caesar by himself . The same is true for all the Julio-Claudians . These are the facts regardless judsicial distinctions . Yes, they were Julii as Septimius Severus was a Nerva !

 

I think it's very much an issue since the Roman themselves didn't make any distinction, however if you talking about blood you forgetting that Augustus was the great nephew of Caesar, so he had in him Caesarian blood.

[Caesar CXXXVII]

The legal distinction between natural born and adopted children is not the isseu here . The fact is that Octavius was adopted by Caesar (by will) and was not a Caesar by himself . The same is true for all the Julio-Claudians . These are the facts regardless judsicial distinctions . Yes, they were Julii as Septimius Severus was a Nerva !

 

I think it's very much an issue since the Roman themselves didn't make any distinction, however if you talking about blood you forgetting that Augustus was the great nephew of Caesar, so he had in him Caesarian blood.

 

 

Is there any disagreement between us ? Or should I delete my comment that Augustus was adopted by Caesar ?

[ASCLEPIADES]

The legal distinction between natural born and adopted children is not the isseu here . The fact is that Octavius was adopted by Caesar (by will) and was not a Caesar by himself . The same is true for all the Julio-Claudians . These are the facts regardless judsicial distinctions . Yes, they were Julii as Septimius Severus was a Nerva !

 

I think it's very much an issue since the Roman themselves didn't make any distinction, however if you talking about blood you forgetting that Augustus was the great nephew of Caesar, so he had in him Caesarian blood.

 

 

Is there any disagreement between us ? Or should I delete my comment that Augustus was adopted by Caesar ?

Edited December 1, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES