The Julio-Claudian line of succession?

[G-Manicus]

GO's thread got me thinking (I know, a rare feat in and of itself) ... I know that when Caligula died, the Praetorian Guard hailed Claudius as Emperor as he was the last remaining male from Julio-Claudians. He was then succeeded by his adopted son Nero, whose death resulted in a series of individuals vying for control of the empire ... Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and finally Vespasian.

 

My question is this ... when Caligula, Claudius and finally Nero died, there were NO other male relatives alive of any of these gentlemen? None whatsoever? ? I've examined the family tree and I see where the likes of Gaius and Lucius and Britannicus, etal had all passed away (for lack of a better term). Set aside whether they would have been proclaimed Emperor or not, but there was no 2nd cousin twice removed or any distant relative of that sort left alive?

Edited April 9, 2008 by G-Manicus

[M. Porcius Cato]

Why would a random member of the Venereal family have any greater claim to the throne than a random praetorian or pleb?

[G-Manicus]

Why would a random member of the Venereal family have any greater claim to the throne than a random praetorian or pleb?

The Praetorian Guards seemed to think so when they found Claudius cleaning the inside of the drapes.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Why would a random member of the Venereal family have any greater claim to the throne than a random praetorian or pleb?

The Praetorian Guards seemed to think so when they found Claudius cleaning the inside of the drapes.

 

They'd just finished murdering off the Imperial family--making the quivering Claudius emperor was a great way to cover their backsides.

[G-Manicus]

They'd just finished murdering off the Imperial family--making the quivering Claudius emperor was a great way to cover their backsides.

Or maybe it was his reward for winning the game of "hide n seek" he was playing.

 

Okay, let me rephrase things ... assume for a moment that imperial succession worked the way it did with a stereotypical monarchy where the closest male relative becomes the new ruler ... who would it have been?

[Ingsoc]

Why would a random member of the Venereal family have any greater claim to the throne than a random praetorian or pleb?

The Praetorian Guards seemed to think so when they found Claudius cleaning the inside of the drapes.

 

They'd just finished murdering off the Imperial family--making the quivering Claudius emperor was a great way to cover their backsides.

 

Actually not all the praetorians were part of the murder plot, part of them keep there loyalty to Caligula and the Julio-Claudians.

 

As for G-Manicus question, even if there was any male of proper age to become an emperor I doubt he would have manage to assume power as it was now the provincial legioneries and not the praetorians who crowned the emperor and they natuarlly supported their commander officer.

[Ursus]

Female descendants of Augustus lived until the time of Vespasian, but since females couldn't be heads of states ... The male line ended when Nero killed Britannicus and then Nero himself was killed. The Julio-Claudian imperial family exterminated itself.

 

The failure of the Principate was precisely that it did not operate as a typical monarchy - it couldn't proclaim itself as a monarchy. It was supported in the final event by the army and the army's willingness to adhere to a legacy of Augustus. When the last male member of the imperial familyties to the Augustan legacy died, the army had to find other candidates (several of them, as it turned out).

[Adelais Valerius]

GO's thread got me thinking (I know, a rare feat in and of itself) ...

 

this is extremely off topic, but it seems you've gone full-fledge, using uber amounts of brain power on deciding which celebrites will kick the bucket on your blog,lol...

[caldrail]

They'd just finished murdering off the Imperial family--making the quivering Claudius emperor was a great way to cover their backsides.

Or maybe it was his reward for winning the game of "hide n seek" he was playing.

 

Okay, let me rephrase things ... assume for a moment that imperial succession worked the way it did with a stereotypical monarchy where the closest male relative becomes the new ruler ... who would it have been?

 

 

As the struggle between Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian showed it could have been anyone with enough chutzpah and support. This was a inherent problem with Post-Republic Rome. Following the precedents set by Sulla and Caesar it was clear to all and sundry that power was there for the taking. If the current ruler is in a strong position, popular, well supported in the senate, the legions in his pocket etc, then there's less likeliehood of trouble. Augustus retained his power for many years (indeed, he was one of the few not removed from power by plots or coups) by some clever diplomacy and no small amount of civic bribery. On the other end of the scale, we have an opportunist like Didius Julianus who picks up the gauntlet thrown down by the praetorians and comes to a sticky end three months later for simply being unable to find any support whatsoever.

 

The empire was anything but a stereotypical monarchy. Although described as such even by some roman writers, there was no formal hereditary succession. The emperors were in charge of an autocracy in which succession was by popularity, support, connections, selection by the previous ruler, or by military coup. Commodus was described as 'The first man born to the purple', which is the closest to a monarchy Rome ever came.

 

Also, look closely at what was happening in Rome during Nero's reign. Once his mother had been gotten rid of and his advisors sidelined, he became something of a party animal, a socialite, a self-professed performer, and part-time chariot racer. Nero may not have been the first to display his 'talent' in public (Caligula had played the gladiator) but this ws still un-roman behaviour, not something a man of superior breeding and status should consider. Since he was more concernd with his social diary and gigging schedule Nero was losing support in the senate, and this led inevitably to them declaring Nero an Enemy of the State. Would they then accept any member of his family? A dour hermit, a looney, and now a performing artist? The successors of Augustus weren't making much of an impression on the movers and shakers. Titus in his younger days had similar inclinations to Nero and the worry was that he would turn out to be another Nero. Titus of course was more sensible, an cleaned up his act. He was also made of sterner stuff, having won military credibility in Judaea. This is another clue. There wasn't anyone else in the Julio-claudian line with enough of a reputation or faction to be seriously considered. There were other contenders, people considered more suitable either by themselves, the legions, or the senate.

Edited April 13, 2008 by caldrail