Caesar: How Many Conspired Against Him?

[M. Porcius Cato]

Maybe Caesar should have killed all his enemies just like Sulla did.

 

For the most part he did. It just took him a bit longer to do the job, and the death of many opponents was masked by the fact that they occurred in battle. Notice that most of those involved in his death were actually considered his friends. Of all of those named, only Quintus Ligarius showed any real history of being an anti-Caesarian as an opponent in the war in Africa. (Lucius Tillius Cimber's brother had been exiled but Cicero claims that Tillius himself was a strong partisan of Caesar... at least prior to joining the conspiracy).

 

Of course, in fairness to Caesar famed clemency, Ligarius was one of those who had been pardoned and we certainly can't be certain of the partisanship of the 50 or so other conspirators who have not named in our surviving sources.

 

 

Were there really another 50+ conspirators, or were there just another 50+ citizens whom the next triumvirate needed an excuse to kill?

[Primus Pilus]

Were there really another 50+ conspirators, or were there just another 50+ citizens whom the next triumvirate needed an excuse to kill?

 

A fair possibility, though we know that there theoretically should have been at least 23... once for each of Caesar's wounds.

 

PS. fixed Dianamts post above... for some reason the quoting did not work properly and her post was attributed under my quote tags. Seems to be ok now.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Were there really another 50+ conspirators, or were there just another 50+ citizens whom the next triumvirate needed an excuse to kill?

 

A fair possibility, though we know that there theoretically should have been at least 23... once for each of Caesar's wounds.

 

Actually, that should be NO MORE THAN 23, no? Why assume just one blow from each assassin? If I'd been in Cassius' sandals, I'd not have been content with less than a dozen!

[Primus Pilus]

Were there really another 50+ conspirators, or were there just another 50+ citizens whom the next triumvirate needed an excuse to kill?

 

A fair possibility, though we know that there theoretically should have been at least 23... once for each of Caesar's wounds.

 

Actually, that should be NO MORE THAN 23, no? Why assume just one blow from each assassin? If I'd been in Cassius' sandals, I'd not have been content with less than a dozen!

 

Agreed, I'm only going generically by what the sources tell us. You may very well be right of course, but we have no independent confirmation that anyone stabbed him repeatedly (though considering that some were wounded in the process it would be admittedly ridiculous to assume that the deed took place with a single harmonious thrust of the blade by each participant.)

 

[edit] Enough said on that, after reviewing the material (below) it's clear that my memory was failing me somewhere here.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Adrift from Sulla, posts 73+ should maybe be split?

[Primus Pilus]

Just for the record and for convenience, I figured I'd list the references....

 

Suetonius claims 60+ conspirators in JC 80.4

 

More than sixty joined the conspiracy against him, led by Gaius Cassius and Marcus and Decimus Brutus.

Suetonius claims 23 wounds.

 

-----

 

Nicholaus of Damascus unfortunately never limits himself to an actual number, but gives the impression (to me at least) that the number is even far greater. He liberally describes a fairly large conspiracy against Caesar even while explaining away many of its members as being motivated by greed and jealousy, etc. Life of Augustus... scroll down to sec. 19 for the beginning of the end of Caesar. Nicholaus claims 35 wounds.

 

-----

 

Appian is also non-descript as to an actual number, but mentions several more actual names than I had listed in the post in the previous thread. The names from Civ. War 2.112-113:

1. Brutus
   
2. Cassius
   
3. Caecilius
   
4. Bucolianus
   
5. Rubrius Ruga
   
6. Quintus Ligarius
   
7. Marcus Spurius
   
8. Servilius Galba
   
9. Sextius Naso
   
10. Pontius Aquila
    
11. Decimus Brutus
    
12. Gaius Casca
    
13. Trebonius
    
14. Tillius Cimber
    
15. Minucius Basilius
    

 

He makes some insinuation that there may have been more, but not nearly so openly as Nicholaus. Appian suggests 23 wounds in ch. 117.

 

-------

 

Plutarch suggests little to believe there were more than very few men involved. He doesn't dismiss the possibility, but clearly provides no evidence to suggest large numbers. Life of Caesar 66 (describes the actual assassination)

 

He claims 23 wounds.

-------

 

Cassius Dio is only slight more revealing than Plutarch. He suggests this in 44.15

 

They came very near being detected for two reasons. One was the number of those who were privy to the plot, although Caesar would not receive any information about anything of the sort and punished very severely those who brought any news of the kind.

 

Cassius Dio claims "many" wounds.

 

-------

 

Even in the description of the aftermath, there is little recorded evidence to support a conspiracy as large as Suetonius' claim of 60+. However, the possibility of that being involved is not so many to think that the entire affair would have been assured of failure especially considering Caesar's noted dismissal of any such plot throughout the sources.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem physically possible to have more than a dozen dagger-wielding senators rushing a non-complaisant Caesar without so much as one accidental fatality. Even just six or seven assassins would be a grave threat to one another in the scenario described in the sources. More than 20 is just absurd. I wonder if there has been a forensic re-enactment of what's been described in the various sources.

[Nephele]

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem physically possible to have more than a dozen dagger-wielding senators rushing a non-complaisant Caesar without so much as one accidental fatality. Even just six or seven assassins would be a grave threat to one another in the scenario described in the sources. More than 20 is just absurd. I wonder if there has been a forensic re-enactment of what's been described in the various sources.

 

It does seem almost comical -- a couple dozen Roman senators eagerly rushing en masse as though they were unruly children at a party and Caesar were the birthday pi

[caldrail]

Its more likely that one guy took the plunge and plucked up the will to do the deed, the others following in less than orderly fashion both because of adrenaline and also to show their peers that they too were a solid member of the conspiracy...

 

Oh dear... I'm speculating....

[Primus Pilus]

I never intended to suggest that there were 60+ actual assassins, only that there were that many involved in the plot. That clearly would've been as dangerous to the liberators as to Caesar himself. However the idea that there may have been 10 to 15 actual knife-wielders and another 45 to 50 "supporters" within the theatre itself isn't entirely out of the question.

 

I'm not necessarily attempting to count those with a passing knowledge (ie Popilius Laena via App. Civ. War. 2.115 but rather the likelihood of several who were involved in discussion and planning without active participation in the actual death (ie Brutus' mother Servilia and wife Porcia). Clearly we can be certain that many sung the praises afterwards (most notably Lentulus Spinther, Favonius, Aquinus, Dolabella, Murcus, and Patiscus immediately after [App Civ. War 2.119] and of course, Cicero) and that they would've been pleased at the events at hand, even if without personal knowledge and clearly frightened as surprise witnesses to the moment of action.

[Primus Pilus]

But... I'd always pictured the majority of those senators merely taking orderly turns stabbing their daggers into an already dying Caesar as a sort of civilized formality, to show solidarity and mutual responsibility. (After the one or two more deadly enthusiastic stabbers had acted, of course.) That way, when someone asked "Who killed Caesar?" they might all answer in unison (

[G-Manicus]

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem physically possible to have more than a dozen dagger-wielding senators rushing a non-complaisant Caesar without so much as one accidental fatality. Even just six or seven assassins would be a grave threat to one another in the scenario described in the sources. More than 20 is just absurd. I wonder if there has been a forensic re-enactment of what's been described in the various sources.

Maybe with liberators assassins, it's like in the legions ... for every soldier there were X number of non-combat personnel, slaves, etc. :-)

Edited April 2, 2008 by G-Manicus

[ASCLEPIADES]

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem physically possible to have more than a dozen dagger-wielding senators rushing a non-complaisant Caesar without so much as one accidental fatality. Even just six or seven assassins would be a grave threat to one another in the scenario described in the sources. More than 20 is just absurd. I wonder if there has been a forensic re-enactment of what's been described in the various sources.

Just for the record and for convenience, I figured I'd list the references....

Suetonius JC 80.4

 

Nicholaus Life of Augustus

 

Appian Civ. War 2.112-113

 

Plutarch Life of Caesar 66

Cassius Dio 44.15

Salve, Amici. There was indeed the first recorded forensic re-enactment ever, done by the physician Antistius (Suetonius). Taking advantage from the thorough and exhaustive review by PP, it seems the confusion raises from the number and names of all involved conspirators compared with those from the actual physical attackers. At least six of the latter were identified by name in the five quoted sources, among no less than nine conspirators closely around the Dictator.

 

The quoted sources are fairly consistent in their descriptions of the attack on Caesar; identifying them by their initials:

 

Servilius Casca gave the first blow (N,A,S,P) in the neck (S,P), left shoulder (N) and/or breast (A).

His brother Caius Casca struck Caesar's side (N); A described this blow without identifying the attacker, while S & P situated this Casca being called for help by his brother.

Cassius Longinus struck Caesar's face (N, A).

Decimus Brutus struck Caesar's thigh (N).

Bucolianus struck Caesar's back (A).

Marcus Brutus struck Caesar (ASPC; N?) in the thigh or groin (A,P).

 

The final wound count was 23 for A,S & P and 35 for N.

In Antistius' opinion, only "the second" wound in the breast was fatal (S) (presumably from one of the Casca brothers, probably Caius).

 

Additionally, Tillius Cimber began the attack, seizing hold of his purple robe to expose Caesar's neck (N,A,S,P).

Minucius Basilius and Rubrius Ruga were also there; the first mistakenly stabbed the second's hand (N).

P states many of the conspirators were wounded by one another; Cassius Longinus struck Marcus Brutus on the hand (N).

At least one conspirator kept Marcus Antonius at the door; A & C identified Trebonius, but P instead Brutus Albinus.

 

The quoted sources didn't state where the other six conspirators enlisted by Appian were (please scroll up); please note that Brutus Albinus (P; not mentioned by any other source) is not included in the list and also that Appian apparently confused the Casca brothers as a sole conspirator.

 

If there really were from six to nine attackers, 23 wounds would have implied an average from 2.5 to almost 4 wounds by conspirator (N would have raised those figures up to "from almost 4 to almost 6", respectively).

Edited July 29, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES

[ASCLEPIADES]

-----

Appian is also non-descript as to an actual number, but mentions several more actual names than I had listed in the post in the previous thread. The names from Civ. War 2.112-113:

1. Brutus
   
2. Cassius
   
3. Caecilius
   
4. Bucolianus
   
5. Rubrius Ruga
   
6. Quintus Ligarius
   
7. Marcus Spurius
   
8. Servilius Galba
   
9. Sextius Naso
   
10. Pontius Aquila
    
11. Decimus Brutus
    
12. Gaius Casca
    
13. Trebonius
    
14. Tillius Cimber
    
15. Minucius Basilius
    

The core of the Liberatores' conspiracy were:

 

some Patricii (Galba, the Casca brothers and -by adoption- MJ Brutus Caepio);

 

and many ancient long-standing nobiles plebeian families (Brutus, Cassius, Caecilius, Minucius, Sextius)

 

Trebonia gens had a four centuries-long tradition of plebeian Tribunes.

Edited August 3, 2008 by ASCLEPIADES