Teutoburger Wald Pipe-dream

[Sequens]

Just some musing. I have thought the Teutoburger Wald battle and possibly later events would be a good subject of a film. I think the most interesting character is Arminius and I see him being the main character as well. I think Viggo would be a good choice for that role. Whats nice about it is that it was a real event, though we have very sketchy details. But I would not want it if they altered the story. There is already a lot of real twists and excitement in the real story.

 

I even have an ending. Augustus banging his head against the wall demanding Varus give him back his legions. Then he stops and looking at his entourage declares The Empire will stop at the Rhine.

[Ingsoc]

There was a movie made of the Teutoburger forest battle in 1967 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144962/

Edited March 21, 2008 by Ingsoc

[Sequens]

There was a movie made of the Teutoburger forest made in 1967 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144962/

 

Thanks for the link! I hadn't heard about this one. From the synoposis I can see some of the ideas about questions of empire were considered. That would be interesting to see as the combattants (Germans and Italians) produced it in cooperation! OK you win a battle and we win a battle. But I am most interested to see how they present the germanic clothing and equipment.

 

Now that an important location has been found in the battle, and the discovery of the German barricade/wall and swamp, I think it could be presented much more accurately topographically.

 

Except for those last roman camp locations....as far as I knew, no one has found them yet. The large march camp and smaller one, found partially destroyed by Germanicus when he investigated the battlefield years later. If that is a true account at least.

[caldrail]

The trouble with films made about historical personalities is that they're often so fundamentally naff. We all this mental image of what these people were like, and seeing some actor play if different jars somewhat, especially if he hasn't a clue who the character as or what he did. A film about the Varian Disaster would be dire if it was filmed from the perspective of the movers and shakers. Films are entertainment, and should tell a story. A film that does nothing but repeat a history lesson is a documentary and it just doesn't work. I do often savage films for inaccuracy but thats just tough. If you want to depict real events, then depict them. otherwise all you do is rewrite history.

 

I'm thinking about a recent tv documentary about a gladiator and his training for the colosseum. Vespasian and Titus were featured but not overly stressed. The central character was an enslaved moesian and the program followed his story right to his final fight in the colosseum opening games. All the actors spoke latin, the commentary was from his perspective, he was a total unknown in a larger scheme of things, and the program was excellent. The film Gladiator worked because it used a historical setting to tell a story, the revenge of a honourable man dispossessed by his emperor. The fact it paid lip service to real events is ok because real events weren't the focus - what was important was the drama between individuals.

 

I suppose you could film something featuring Augustus/Varus/Germanicus/Arminius and whoever else, but the screenplay, direction, and acting would have to be first rate to give the production that certain something that makes it watchable at all.

[longshotgene]

The problem with battles like this is that you already know the end Everyone is massacred. It is kind of like watching movies about the Alamo. You know what happens ahead of time. I would have to disagree with it being a good movie topic. What did the battle culminate in? It is like watching a movie on Custer's last stand. You know Custer dies, has his ears pierced, and that is it. That battle started the beginning of the end for the indians.

[Sequens]

I suppose you could film something featuring Augustus/Varus/Germanicus/Arminius and whoever else, but the screenplay, direction, and acting would have to be first rate to give the production that certain something that makes it watchable at all.

 

I really agree with your analysis of the focus of films and storytelling aspects. It is very difficult to thread your way through the material without getting muddled.

 

I do have an interest in seeing this period as accurately pictured as possible, but like you say as a backround you appreciate (as a historian) or do not notice much (casual viewer).

 

But it is the personality aspects that interest me most within the context of politics of that time. This story is quite dramatic just as it is, and it is endlessly fascinating to me to try to get into the heads of the participants. Arminius was attempting something very difficult to do and succeeded to a large degree. He walked that strange path between advanced classical civilization and primative tribalism. I am very curious about what sort of man he was and what were his motivations. You are absolutely right. It would take masterly performances and interpretations to draw out some of the answers and be worth doing. I just sense this is a great story, if done right.

[caldrail]

If the film company had dragged me to one side and suggested that I write the script or get a day job, then what I'd do is tell a story around the historical events. I mentioned somewhere else an idea for an escape movie featuring a bunch of various characters getting away from bloodthirsty germanic tribesmen. But thats not good enough says the producer, slinging my first script away in front of me, pointing at me with a fat cigar, and making it clear they wanted shakespear for the masses, not some boys own adventure. Ok, lets think about it....

 

Firstly, as dramatic as it seems, the events of the varian disaster add up to around half an hour of screeplay unless you really want to drag it out. There isn't a lot of drama involved either, since the interplay of the plot revolves around Augustus sending varus to Germany, Arminius telling Varus there's a rebellion, Arminius telling the germans to ambush Varus, Varus gets ambushed, Augustus hears about the disaster, troops force march north, Augustus bangs head against wall. There's not enough for an entertaining film. Its too clear cutm, there's no suprise, there's little drama, it comes across as a dull costume epic.

 

So, on my umpteenth rewrite, I would meddle with the actual events and rewrite history to make the film entertaining and thus save my career from turing into street cleaning. Augustus makes Varus his potential heir (a bit like the self-combusting drummer of Spinal Tap, you just don't survive) and jealous members of the senate hatch a plot. Germanicus is rising in popularity and wants to ensure Varus fails. he does a deal with Arminius for support of his new regime in germany. Varus is trapped, discovers he's been duped, sends away a messenger before he commits suicide (as an alternative to a blood sacrifice on a german altar), and the action turns to Rome - where the various players conduct a mafia style fight to the finish - leaving Augustus to bang his head against the wall at the end.

 

Ok - thats my seventy eighth script.... Does this film get made or do I invest in sponges?

[Hus]

This is a fantastic drama-documentary which was shown in 2009 on the History Channel.

 

http://www.viipillar...attle-of-varus/

 

 

The Battle Against Rome - The Battle Of Varus

 

Director: Christian Twente

Languages:English

Subtitles: English, Chinese

Running time: 104 min

Audio format: Dolby EX 6.1

Aspect Ratio: 1.78:1 Anamorphic Widescreen

 

Based On Latest Historical Evidence And New Findings

A Spectacular Sweep Of History Told Through Astonishing CGI

 

It says 'coming out soon' but I emailed the company 'contact us', they replied saying they still aren't sure when it'll be out, and not in the UK! Useless.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Hus

[DecimusCaesar]

If the film company had dragged me to one side and suggested that I write the script or get a day job, then what I'd do is tell a story around the historical events. I mentioned somewhere else an idea for an escape movie featuring a bunch of various characters getting away from bloodthirsty germanic tribesmen. But thats not good enough says the producer, slinging my first script away in front of me, pointing at me with a fat cigar, and making it clear they wanted shakespear for the masses, not some boys own adventure. Ok, lets think about it....

 

Firstly, as dramatic as it seems, the events of the varian disaster add up to around half an hour of screeplay unless you really want to drag it out. There isn't a lot of drama involved either, since the interplay of the plot revolves around Augustus sending varus to Germany, Arminius telling Varus there's a rebellion, Arminius telling the germans to ambush Varus, Varus gets ambushed, Augustus hears about the disaster, troops force march north, Augustus bangs head against wall. There's not enough for an entertaining film. Its too clear cutm, there's no suprise, there's little drama, it comes across as a dull costume epic.

 

So, on my umpteenth rewrite, I would meddle with the actual events and rewrite history to make the film entertaining and thus save my career from turing into street cleaning. Augustus makes Varus his potential heir (a bit like the self-combusting drummer of Spinal Tap, you just don't survive) and jealous members of the senate hatch a plot. Germanicus is rising in popularity and wants to ensure Varus fails. he does a deal with Arminius for support of his new regime in germany. Varus is trapped, discovers he's been duped, sends away a messenger before he commits suicide (as an alternative to a blood sacrifice on a german altar), and the action turns to Rome - where the various players conduct a mafia style fight to the finish - leaving Augustus to bang his head against the wall at the end.

 

Ok - thats my seventy eighth script.... Does this film get made or do I invest in sponges?

 

This sort of reminds me of that old 1970 film 'Waterloo', which was all about the battle. It's good if you're a Napoleonic buff with some knowledge of this battle (and let's face it, Waterloo is an important battle as far as military history goes) but for anyone else, there simply is no real interesting characters or drama to any of it. It's mostly napoleon adn the duke of Wellington issuing orders and looking into the distance with a telescope as armies march about. That seems to be the main arguement of film critics who aren't history buffs anyway.