Greek influence in ancient China Scripting?

[tkoletsis]

 

These inscriptions are from China - western Zhou dynasty and are dated from 1028 to 771 BC.

As a Greek i can recognize almost all the greek alphabet there.

This is very strange because these symbols appear in the greek region at about 800 BC. with the disputed

argument - in my opinion - of the phoenician origin of the greek alphabet.

Something does not going well with the ancient scripts considering too many mistakes by archaeologists in translating the linear B script till 1950.

I think we miss something here. I have the suspicion that there is a greek influence here but there are not enough evidences about that.

I want your opinion.

 

Pottery writings from Qing Jiang County (1530-1395 BC)

 

Pottery writings from Gao City and Zheng Zhou Er Li Gang (1620-1595 BC)

[docoflove1974]

If those dates are correct, then I very much doubt that there is Greek influence in Ancient Chinese writing systems. Besides the fact that the Chinese writing is clearly pictograms (which evolve into the characters that are used today), it is generally acknowledged that 2000-1500 BCE is Proto-Greek (which has no written documentation), with Mycenean (using Linear B ) being spoken (and written) from 1500-1000BCE. The time frames do not line up. For more information about Hellenic, I would direct you to Indo-European Linguistic Research Center, and their many resources.

 

Another point: in order for there to be a link, there has to be contact between the two cultures. This contact would have to be more than casual, as shared language and/or writing systems are a result of direct and constant influence--usually in the form of neighbors, constant trade partners, or conquerers. I don't believe there was any such contact between the Ancient Chinese peoples and the Hellenic peoples of this time period.

Edited March 16, 2008 by docoflove1974

[caldrail]

I agree. Although greek/roman vessels travelled far into the indian ocean and indeed may have been travelling as far as china in some very isolated cases, this was happening much later than the period you suggest. The first real expansion of greek culture occured through the efforts of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC, again much later. Akso, whilst there was a period of exploration in ancient china I don't think it was that long ago, and there's no record they ever sailed into the mediterranean.

 

Is there any possibility of the symbols depicted being nothing more than a coincidential resemblance? It seems hugely unlikely that there's a common root to both scripts.

Edited March 16, 2008 by caldrail

[tkoletsis]

There is'not only the similarity between the scriptings but there are also common elements in the pottery of the two civilizations which dates up to the neolithic period :

 

Flat bottomed storage jar

Probably Gansu, Yangshao culture

Neolithic to early Bronze (circa , 3000-1500 BCE)

Buff-colored earthenware ornamented with appliques and black painted decorations

 

Cycladic spherical jug with spiral decoration from the same period

 

 

If those dates are correct, then I very much doubt that there is Greek influence in Ancient Chinese writing systems. Besides the fact that the Chinese writing is clearly pictograms (which evolve into the characters that are used today), it is generally acknowledged that 2000-1500 BCE is Proto-Greek (which has no written documentation), with Mycenean (using Linear B ) being spoken (and written) from 1500-1000BCE. The time frames do not line up. For more information about Hellenic, I would direct you to Indo-European Linguistic Research Center, and their many resources.

 

Another point: in order for there to be a link, there has to be contact between the two cultures. This contact would have to be more than casual, as shared language and/or writing systems are a result of direct and constant influence--usually in the form of neighbors, constant trade partners, or conquerers. I don't believe there was any such contact between the Ancient Chinese peoples and the Hellenic peoples of this time period.

[docoflove1974]

Again the point must be made: if there was little to no contact between the two cultures during this time frame (which is the case here), there cannot be any link made.

 

It is not uncommon at all for two different and distinct cultures to have similar practices. Look at the numerous cultures which have some sort of pyramid--the obvious links being the Ancient Egyptians on the one hand and the Mayan and Aztec pyramids on the other. This is nothing to say of the numerous American Indian mounds, Germanic and Celtic mounds which have been said to be similar in purpose and concept to the pyramids. The list of phenomena can grow ad nauseum.

 

The fact that pottery, both in material and design, is similar also does not prove anything; circular patterns are common, as they often represent life (the circuitousness of life, the beginning and end being the same point, etc.), the color being that of the clay and the dyes around at the time and at the location. Even the shape is not uncommon; jugs and such often have similar shapes, often stemming from the fact that they had similar functions.

[caldrail]

There is of course the view connected with that concerning human mental processes. Since we're all pretty similar there's bound to be a tendency to think of the same things. I don't know how true that is, but I remember a game I once set up for sci-fi players. They all had the same map and were told to go out and colonise the nearby systems (and hopefully argue a lot about territory - the whole point of the game). Each player without exception went exactly the same way! The way they perceived the map unconciously suggested to them all that a certain route would be best.

[Celestemmcknight]

We have all heard all the moronic claims about the Hellenized Macedonian leaders and this is probably why EACH AND EVERY Macedonian artifact or relic found has inscriptions on it that are written in the Hellenic language.

 

However, to claim that the Macedonians were using the Greek language couldnt be further from the truth as our neighbors say.

There was in fact an actual Macedonian language that was much different than Greek and it was the language that the people were using.

Obviously,an international conspiracy has worked its magic to hide all the evidence of the existence of such a language,up until now.

[Northern Neil]

We have all heard all the moronic claims about the Hellenized Macedonian leaders and this is probably why EACH AND EVERY Macedonian artifact or relic found has inscriptions on it that are written in the Hellenic language.

 

However, to claim that the Macedonians were using the Greek language couldnt be further from the truth as our neighbors say.

There was in fact an actual Macedonian language that was much different than Greek and it was the language that the people were using.

Obviously,an international conspiracy has worked its magic to hide all the evidence of the existence of such a language,up until now.

 

I believe it has been widely postulated that the Macedonians spoke a language which was part of the Thraco - phrygian group. This language group's sole surviving tongue is Armenian, which is regarded as being distantly related to Greek. I forget the original source, but I recall on this forum a statement that Macedonian officers could not be understood by mainland Greek soldiers.

 

On the other hand, I have also heard it said that the Athenians held a snobbish yet incorrect view that the Macedonians were not true Greeks, a convention which flourishes to this day.