Caesar and Cleopatra

[dianamt54]

UGH! I had a whole message written, hit the wrong button. Curse of Long Nails!

Claude Ranes and Vivien Leigh did a move in 1945, It is awful. Vivien Leigh protrays Cleopatra as a nutter, wide eyes little butterfly. She skips about the palace. Needless to say, I could not finish it. I do like Ben Hur, I saw it when I was little, so I have a different perspective when I saw that. A couple of weeks agao, I tried to watch Quo Vadis and The Fall of the Roman Empire. I just could not do it. And I love old movies.

I do like Julius Caesar with Jeremy Sisto. I just saw a different side of Caesar. Plus I like that Sulla was in a movie. More Sulla! I still like Gladiator, no matter what the history licence is. But the more I am learning about Rome's History, the more I can really pay attention to the details of the movie. I would hope that when people see some movies on Rome, they would research all they can. If it wasn't for Anne of the Thousand days, which I read in 6th grade, I would not have a BA in History. The Tudors did drive me crazy because they really played with history, but as I got over it, I could enjoy it.

Salve all,

[caldrail]

Yes I know what you mean. Cleopatra in real life was a woman who knew what she wanted and how to manipulate men to get it. I don't mean sex, for her that was a means to an end. Nor was she entirely the beauty of legend, although it must be said she had an attractive personality that hooked both Julius Caesar and Marc Antony (and would have snared Octavian too if he hadn't been so wiley). With many of these romanesque epics the accent is moralistic storytelling, usually depicting Rome as a sinkhole of deptavity and madness. Thats a popular image and fundamentally wrong. My mother for instance cannot get into her head that the romans weren't all lewd lunatics - she'd been taught that in her younger days and won't let go of that familiar image. She's also a committed christian and I suspect that also colours her opinions - it certainly has coloured hollywood depictions in the past, and I think thats part of the reason these old roman epics are so hard to swallow. That said, its astonishing how far removed from reality these films can be, something you notice when you know a little about Roman history.

 

Years ago, when I was working professionally in rock bands, our sound engineer (the band managers wife) asked me if I'd enjoyed watching the support band. I laughed, pointing out all the hapless errors they'd made. She then speculated that for me, knowing what I did about musical performance, that it must spoil things because I noticed all the mistakes. I told that it didn't, because I also noticed when they got it just right. A few months later she brought up the subject again and told me thats she was beginning to see what I meant.

 

Now I've had a dig at a BBC2 program about Spartacus elsewhere on the forums - I think deservedly - but I also recognise the difficulty of entertaining people for whom roman history is something akin to snail racing. When you watch a program, just as Nephele pointed out to me, you have to accept the program as is. If a documentary makes these mistakes you have every reason to rubbish it. A program for entertainment is something different, however much it jars your sensibilities. The BBC2 prog made the mistake of trying to sell itself as historically accurate and for me, that ruined its credibility. It should have have been truer to itself.

 

This is why the film Gladiator is so much more watchable, modern production values aside. Its true to itself, it doesn't make statements about religion or modern politics, it simply tells a tale of a disposessed man seeking revenge.

 

But then, times move on and our expectations of entertainment change. Its funny how some films age terribly and others seem somehow as fresh as the day they were filmed. The quality of acting, script, and score is all a part of it, but there's an underlying need for a story that is communicated clearly and without unnecessary emotional baggage. Some directors get it right, others don't.

[Octavia]

I've seen Caesar and Cleopatra but it's been a long time. It's been awhile since I've seen Quo Vadis and I'm looking for the dvd. The movie I apsolutely love is I, Claudius! It's awsome and very long to watch. The fall of the roman empire, now that I've never seen. The only thing that I wish they had in I, claudius were the advisers of Claudius, Calistus, and Vetellius.