Klingan Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I've heard that there exist quotes in ancient sources on baths and how hot/cold they were from time to time. Does anyone know where I might find this? Thanks, Klingan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I don't know whether we can ever know the precise temperature of the baths of the ancient Romans, but we do know that the Romans described their bathwater in (translated) general terms of "cold," "warm," "hot," and "tepid," and that the Romans moved from one temperature to another in their bathing rituals. For an ancient source description of a sumptuous private bath, describing the different rooms with water of varying temperature, we have Pliny the Younger's letter to his friend, Gallus (Book XVII of Pliny's collected letters), describing Pliny's villa at Laurentium (17 miles outside of Rome): "To this apartment another ante-room is joined by one common wall. From thence you enter into the wide and spacious cooling-room belonging to the bath, from the opposite walls of which two curved basins are thrown out, so to speak; which are more than large enough if you consider that the sea is close at hand. Adjacent to this is the anointing-room, then the sweating-room, and beyond that the bath-heating room: adjoining are two other little bath-rooms, elegantly rather than sumptuously fitted up: annexed to them is a warm bath of wonderful construction, in which one can swim and take a view of the sea at the same time." -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Good one there Nephele! What I meant by hot/cold it that I've hear that there would be hints in text about people burning them self on the walls or water and that complained about how cold the caldarium water was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Good one there Nephele! What I meant by hot/cold it that I've hear that there would be hints in text about people burning them self on the walls or water and that complained about how cold the caldarium water was. I think you might find a reference by Seneca to being "parboiled" in a bath, in Letter 86 of Seneca's letters to Lucilius. But I can't locate an online translation. And perhaps Seneca might have been exaggerating, as he took a dim view of the luxury of baths, being a stoic as he was. -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Somewhere in Turkey, a while back, archaeologists reconstructed a Roman bath. Fire and all. Since you are one of their types, you might be able to find it and get the information you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Good one there Nephele! What I meant by hot/cold it that I've hear that there would be hints in text about people burning them self on the walls or water and that complained about how cold the caldarium water was. I think you might find a reference by Seneca to being "parboiled" in a bath, in Letter 86 of Seneca's letters to Lucilius. But I can't locate an online translation. And perhaps Seneca might have been exaggerating, as he took a dim view of the luxury of baths, being a stoic as he was. -- Nephele Sources should always be handled with caution, I will take a look at it! Thanks! Somewhere in Turkey, a while back, archaeologists reconstructed a Roman bath. Fire and all. Since you are one of their types, you might be able to find it and get the information you want. Is that the one they had to make waterproof with silicon in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Somewhere in Turkey, a while back, archaeologists reconstructed a Roman bath. Fire and all. Since you are one of their types, you might be able to find it and get the information you want. Is that the one they had to make waterproof with silicon in the end? Yes, I think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustus Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 What I meant by hot/cold it that I've hear that there would be hints in text about people burning them self on the walls or water and that complained about how cold the caldarium water was. I think you might find a reference by Seneca to being "parboiled" in a bath, in Letter 86 of Seneca's letters to Lucilius. But I can't locate an online translation. And perhaps Seneca might have been exaggerating, as he took a dim view of the luxury of baths, being a stoic as he was. -- Nephele To depart from the sources you asked for Klingan, here's further input: An experienced "furnace operator" would develop the necessary skills to meet the comfort needs of the users of the bath. The variables to be taken into account regarding controlling the heat of the floor in the cauldarium and that of the water in the plunge bath would be the operator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Great post Faustus! My apologies for delaying the answer, I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullafelix Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 There is an online translation of Seneca's epistles, I know becaue I found it but it was rather difficult andit took some time. It was on some very obscure source site. Interestingly Seneca talking about Scipio's villa gives some idea of what bathing would have been like under the Republic and in a smallish private villa. There is some indciation of how the system worked and where the water came from as well as the fascinating news that Scipio seemed to bathe in the dark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustus Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 There is some indciation of how the system worked and where the water came from as well as the fascinating news that Scipio seemed to bathe in the dark! . Imagine that! Looking at most baths, for instance the Stabian baths in Pompeii seem to be poorly lighted, at least from outside openings. I suppose very little took place there after daylight hours, but in a villa that situation would be open for personal choice. A skylight might provide enough light on a night with a full moon. The Stabian bath did have a skylight in the vault of the Caldarum, and from the mention ("sky-light") I took that to mean a glazed opening. Its use included the ability to open it and it would have acted as a "temperature regulation valve" when the room became too hot. Klingan, thanks for mentioning the Stabian Baths. I found a copy of POMPEII ~ A Guide to the Ancient City by Salvatore Nappo on my bookshelf. It has some beautiful artistic reconstructions of the baths. Do you have that? Either way I have a question to ask about the location of the secondary fireplaces you mentioned. I have a floor plan and a legend of the baths I can send, to ask some questions off forum. Faustus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted February 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I've been looking for it over the net too Sullafelix, I'm going to the library as soon as possible to get it! There is some indciation of how the system worked and where the water came from as well as the fascinating news that Scipio seemed to bathe in the dark! . Imagine that! Looking at most baths, for instance the Stabian baths in Pompeii seem to be poorly lighted, at least from outside openings. I suppose very little took place there after daylight hours, but in a villa that situation would be open for personal choice. A skylight might provide enough light on a night with a full moon. The Stabian bath did have a skylight in the vault of the Caldarum, and from the mention ("sky-light") I took that to mean a glazed opening. Its use included the ability to open it and it would have acted as a "temperature regulation valve" when the room became too hot. Klingan, thanks for mentioning the Stabian Baths. I found a copy of POMPEII ~ A Guide to the Ancient City by Salvatore Nappo on my bookshelf. It has some beautiful artistic reconstructions of the baths. Do you have that? Either way I have a question to ask about the location of the secondary fireplaces you mentioned. I have a floor plan and a legend of the baths I can send, to ask some questions off forum. Faustus I don't, but I will take a look for it as soon as I come by the University library, probably Monday or Tuesday. For the fire place I cannot quite exactly remember and it will take some time before I can confirm it to 100% certainty. I have only found it in one source, but it's very sensible and I can very much imagine the good it would do to the overall system. 1 Entrance men, 2 Entrance women, 3 palaestra, 4 foot bath pool, 5 pool, 6 apodytherium (men), 7 frigidarium (men), 8 tepidarium (men), 9 caldarium (men), 10 caldarium (women), 11 tepidarium (women), 12 apodytehrium (women), 13 latrin. The fire place would be behind the (east side) man's caldarium or tepidarium. I am going to Pompeii this summer myself to take a look at the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustus Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) The fire place would be behind the (east side) man's caldarium or tepidarium. I am going to Pompeii this summer myself to take a look at the system. These seem to be "auxiliary" heat sources for both areas, possibly because they needed some help to be more comfortable? I notice your floor plan is clearer in that particular area than the one in the Nappo book mentioned. With your help I have located the two fireplaces; The Edited February 16, 2008 by Faustus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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