spittle Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am attempting to trace the earliest origines of criminal brotherhoods and recently saw a film version of Don Quixote that made reference to the 'brotherhood of villains'. If anyone could confirm or refute what Cervantes actually wrote on this group it would be most helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I read it in my early teens, but forget most of it. It wasn't a very memorable read in my opinion (maybe it loses something in translation) Sorry I can't help, other than to say, I hope you're not tilting at windmills with this project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 A friend of mine read this. He messed around in school and was a bit of a teenage thug - but one day a teacher gave him a copy of this book as a punishment for disrupting the class. He was told to read it and write an essay about it by the end of the week, or be put 'on report' - the school version of 'tagging' or house arrest. He enjoyed the book so much that he read it cover to cover in three days, AND delivered said essay. It opened up a world of reading literature to him; the guy is now taking his doctorate in psychology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I am attempting to trace the earliest origines of criminal brotherhoods and recently saw a film version of Don Quixote that made reference to the 'brotherhood of villains'.If anyone could confirm or refute what Cervantes actually wrote on this group it would be most helpful. It's one of my favorite books of all time, and it's a must-read for any college student, in my mind. But the phrase isn't one that I remember; I must admit that I read it in the original Spanish. I've tried searching it (I'm using Online Literature.com so that I can use the English translation that you'd be referring to, and it doesn't bring any references up. In which part of the movie did the phrase occur? Also, just as a side note, there are so many versions of Don Quixote in both play and movie form, that often the 'text' or quotes are off from what Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra wrote. And this is not limited to this work, but any that has been adapted over the years. Playwrights and screenwriters take quite a bit of liberty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecimusCaesar Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I read it some years back. I really enjoyed most of it, although I did have to force myself to not skip the section where one man recounts a story of an affair. That part just dragged on for a long time. I also have a copy of the Don Quixote story on DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 A group of criminals are being escorted in a chain gang when Quixote (John Lithgow) and a very reluctant Sancho (Bob Hoskins) attack the guards and unchain them. Rather than show gratitude the convicts rob Quixote and Panza, even taking Sancho's beloved donkey. What do you expect from ...'the brotherhood of villains' complains Sancho. It stuck in my mind because I once read that the Camorra (Naples Mafia) was much older than its Sicillian neighbours and experts believe it had been transported to Campania from Spain during the reign of the Bourbons. Firther research mentioned a group called La Garduna from Seville but there seems to be little written in English about this early crime fraternity. Annoyingly there is much more written about the medievil beginnings of the Sicillian Mafiaeven though they have all been dismissed as impossible by serious historians and linguists for decades....but that doesn't get in the way of a good story so the myths are securely in the bloodstream of these folk legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I had to read this in High School (sixth form, I think, in the UK) Spanish class. I recall that it was well beyond my Spanish comprehension abilities, and that I hated every minute of it. Lest anyone think I am discriminating against Spanish literature, there are few "classic" novels, English or otherwise, that I can honestly take pleasure in reading. As an example, I recall being forced to read Melville's "Moby Dick" in about the 8th grade (13 yrs old or so). "Call me Ishmael". Yeah right, call me bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 France's poet Francois Villoin wrote many poems using the villains XV C slang that it's largely unknown today. This is at least a century before Cervantes. PS. I liked Don Quijote, mostly the first part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 France's poet Francois Villoin wrote many poems using the villains XV C slang that it's largely unknown today. This is at least a century before Cervantes. PS. I liked Don Quijote, mostly the first part. Are these poems incomprehensible? Which area of France did he come from? The Corsicans were a force to be reckoned with. I don't doubt there were crime gangs/groups long before Cervantes but I hope to track the beginnings of still active groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 As an example, I recall being forced to read Melville's "Moby Dick" in about the 8th grade (13 yrs old or so). "Call me Ishmael". Yeah right, call me bored. I couldn't get through the first three chapters of that. Boring is right. But then I'm not a big fan of American literature. British for the most part, and some Russian. And of course the Ancient Greeks and Romans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I have little inclination to devote the precious spare time I have to any fiction. There are just so many historical era's and area's that I am curious about.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matous Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 As a student in my teens, this novel fell into my hands, too. As an adult, I also viewed a film version. I believe there have been several, if not more, attempts in making this piece of fiction depicting one knights adventurous search for love, beauty and truth among the madness. The one-liner that I liked best in the film version I watched was when Quixote repsonded with the words "It's complicated" ... and so it is... the search for love, beauty and truth can be very complicated. Your question about the earliest beginnings of Criminal Brotherhood is a complicated one....but worthy of the quest for adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 As an example, I recall being forced to read Melville's "Moby Dick" in about the 8th grade (13 yrs old or so). "Call me Ishmael". Yeah right, call me bored. I couldn't get through the first three chapters of that. Boring is right. I just have to chime in here and say that Melville's "Bartleby the Scrivener" was one of my all-time favorite stories as a kid. I fell in love with that character -- his obdurate contrariness with his employer ("I would prefer not to.") just cracked me up. The character appealed to me so that, in fact, I cried at the end of that story, experiencing a genuine sense of loss. Bartleby, in my opinion, is one of the quirkiest, most original characters in fiction. Forget Moby Dick -- it's Bartleby who was Melville's shining achievement. Ah Bartleby! Ah humanity! -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Paulinus Maximus Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 I've just snapped up a copy of Don Quixote from Amazon for the princely sum of............wait for it!...........1p, yes that's right , a penny! I do love a bargain. If this book is as good as you guy's say it is then it would be a crime not to add it to my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The villains were from Paris and their slang it's mostly incomprehensible. Corsica was not a part of medieval France being anexed in late XVIII C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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