Gaius Octavius Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 If my memory serves, the legions' 'grunts' had to be able to read and write. If this is so, how were they thus educated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryaxis Hecatee Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 Indeed they were literate men since they had to be able to read passwords and orders. We also know that many liked to take Martial's epigrams and Juvenal's Satyra with them on campaign ( if I remember well we learn it through Martial's own writings and some account on Claudius's british campaign ). About how they learned it... Probably like any other roman youngster through public teachers who teached on forums, in basilica, under porticoes and in other public areas or in private rooms, with each children giving some money to the teacher everyday, learning when they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 As for those soldiers in the Roman legions who were not Roman-born, I would imagine that they would already be familiar with Latin in their native lands. Wherever Rome had conquered, one could bet that Latin would be evident everywhere -- from public notices of laws, warrants, and civil proceedings to milestones erected along the roads. Â If it was important to know what was written on these (and, of course, it was) then I imagine a sort of functional literacy would have been acquired by the general populace, if not through formal education then at least through experience. In much the same way that many people today have acquired a functional computer literacy through experience, despite the fact their generation was not taught computer literacy in the classroom. Â -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 I don't know to be honest, but I get the feeling that if you enrolled in the roman army you would probably be, ehm, very motivated to learn how to read very quickly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 I don't think that your average legionary did have to be literate. I DO know that Centurions and above had to be literate, and since the sources make such a big deal of that, it seems to suggest that everyone else *didn't*. Â That said, I would think that, even if out of sheer boredom, you would learn the basics of literacy in the legions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted November 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 ... it seems to suggest that everyone else *didn't*. Â Didn't they have to be able to make out a will and sign for their pay and equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 ... it seems to suggest that everyone else *didn't*. Â Didn't they have to be able to make out a will and sign for their pay and equipment? Â I don't know whether Roman legionaries had to make out their wills and sign for their pay and equipment -- have you read this somewhere, GO? If this is so, then one needn't necessarily be more than functionally literate for any of this. One could dictate one's will to a scribe. And "signing" could have been accomplished with the use of a signet ring. Â But, barring the signet ring, Roman soldiers did carry a form of identification sort of like our present-day dog-tags. See this UNRV thread. So perhaps all the soldier need do was to exhibit his signaculum when collecting pay and necessary equipment? Â -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 But, barring the signet ring, Roman soldiers did carry a form of identification sort of like our present-day dog-tags. See this UNRV thread. So perhaps all the soldier need do was to exhibit his signaculum when collecting pay and necessary equipment? Â Also, couldn't the signaculum be used similarly to a signet ring? Â But, it really doesn't take much literacy to know how to write or sign your name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 But, it really doesn't take much literacy to know how to write or sign your name. Â Yet many can't do that. If one does not truly learn their alphabet/writing system, then literacy becomes an issue, even to spell the name. Think of all those who had little-to-no education, and sign with an X. It could be the same in antiquity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 There was no requirement in the roman legions for the ability to read and write, nor were the majority likely to do so. Although the romans had a very good level of education it must be remembered that the common soldiers usually came from the illerate poor, possibly from a nation where latin is not the mother tongue. Â Officers would generally come from wealthier families thus education (which wasn't free!) was readily available. They would need these skills for communications of official or mundane nature. Centurions too may have had education, but considering that many were promoted from the ranks there is a distinct possibility that a great many did not, although if someone had risen to this rank there is also a possibility they received a modest education during their service, although the standard of their literacy probably weasn't high. Â What has been forgotten by some of the above posters is the immunes, the people who had skills that gave them a chance to get away from ordinary physical fatigues - so we know that not everyone could read and write. Â The availability of these clerks given 'office patrol' meant that senior men whose education was lacking might well use them to transcribe orders, letters, and mundane bookeeping. In fact, there was no reason why a soldier couldn't maintain an educated slave if he could afford one, and certainly officers were likely to consider the utility of personal assistants. Â Does this lack of education mean the roman army was at a disadvantage? Of course not, given their enemies probably had none at all. The majority of orders were verbal - shouted usually, so soldiers were well aware of what was required from them. Â Signalling should not be overlooked. The soldiers had a whole series of coded trumpet calls, flags, and burning lights that carried clear messages across distances. In fact, there was little requirement for literacy for the common soldier other than a desirable advantage in staying warm and dry whilst his mates sweated it out outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~madsb/home/war/vegetius/dere05.php  A number of specialist did exist in the Roman military who were given extra pay and these obviously included men responsible for keeping the records of individual units - the pay records if nothing else;0)  If you browse through the Vindolanda tablets they en-masse provide evidence of a wide range of writing ability including differences in abbreviations, short-hand 'rules' and even clarity of writing style. All of which supports the view that literacy specialism did exist with a few men either starting with literacy skills or else given basic training after they joined the military.  link at:  http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/index.shtml  Melvadius   The above is thanks to Melvadius at roman-empire.net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formosus Viriustus Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 SalveteOmnes ! Â I found this thread here very informative. It is a question that has been nagging me for years : ' ' In how far were common people literate in ancient times ?' Â The common (mis)conception of the less informed nowadays still seems to be that until the arrival of printed text in the 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylla Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Ward-Perkins performed a cautious analysis on the more than 11,000 inscriptions and graffiti recorded in Pompeii; I couldn't agree more with his conclusion: Â "Even though we cannot estimate the proportion of Pompeians who were literate (was it 30 per cent, or more; or perhaps only 10 per cent ?), we can say with confidence that writing was an essential, and a day-to-day part of the city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Agreed. However, the legions do not comprise a similar mix of people that you found in cities. They were from an entire region, with special attention to fit, active, aggressive young men. most of those wouldn't know how to read by virtue of their background (and the legions were for many of them a life of adventure away from the toil of manual labour - boy were they in for a shock! - or a way to make some sort of profitable living with a decent pension package) Â I also note that reading and writing was a prized attribute for legionaries - it made it likely that they'd be chosen for office duty , thus being assigned as immunes, and someone else can do all the labouring outside. Edited April 28, 2009 by caldrail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Era is also extremely important... early to mid Republic legionaries consisted of landed citizenry and were likely to have better access to education than military counterparts in the later Republic and imperial eras or in armies of other "states". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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