Roman Fort Expert Required

[Augustus Caesar]

Hmmm... I didn't pick up on the distance thing either!! As you say though there is only a suggestion of one entrance and that doesn't bode well for a fort. Indeed it looks as if it may be a case of gathering their (scant?) evidence together and looking at it in some detail or looking forward to a further expansive dig or geophys scan.

[Melvadius]

Hmmm... I didn't pick up on the distance thing either!! As you say though there is only a suggestion of one entrance and that doesn't bode well for a fort. Indeed it looks as if it may be a case of gathering their (scant?) evidence together and looking at it in some detail or looking forward to a further expansive dig or geophys scan.

 

 

I have had another thought or two on the original question.

 

As GoC suggested the site could have been used a the location of an earlier medieval manor - there is actually a lot of evidence for multi-phase use of sites in the medieval period - including even major buildings such as manor houses moving from one location to another and even more than one such site being in use at the same time within fairly small settlements.

 

I couldn't get a feel for how Alkborough itself developed from the maps and aerial photographs I can currently access or even how large the site under discussion is. It might help if someone could post what the acreage of the site is as that could give a stronger indication of it's potential military usage in the Roman period. However I couldn't see any sign of crop marks in standing crops which may indicate a southern entrance in the aerial photograph that is on Multipmap - Google Earth currently has the field partially harvested which doesn't help.

 

As to multiple embankments on Roman military sites this can happen where a fort has shrunk in size from when it was first laid out - just look at Rough Castle but as far as I know the ditch and embankment system there is an unusual survival of the usual Roman rebuilding practices.

 

I think I am still coming down on the side of it probably being earl;ier (some Iron Age field systems incorporate emabnkments and are fairly regular in shape or more likely later than Roman. The presence of a coin hoard and kilns in the area although a good indicator of nearby Roman occupation do not confirm a military aspect to the site.

 

As you say more research may be indicated.

 

BTW have the results of the excavations not been made available through the local sites and monuments register - if they have then there should be some indication of the profile of the ditch if it was included in the test trenches?

 

Melvadius

Edited November 5, 2007 by Melvadius

[caldrail]

[As far as marching camp in the South East of England are concerned there have been very few proven even as far west as Swindon.

Its known that a marching fort existed near the junction of roman roads on the east edge of what is now Swindon, more accurately near the village of Wanborough, though I must confess I don't know the exact location - must find that in the local library sometime. Nonetheless, the vicus for the fort is nearer Swindon, and roadworks uncovered signs of roman habitation adjacent to the old road. We also know the cemetary is partially buried under a Swindon housing estate. The roman roads join the routes from Cunetio, Venta Belgarum, and Corinium (the second largest town in roman britain), so the road may well have been a busy one at times, and given the pottery kilns found in west swindon and north toward Cricklade, with plenty of trade besides soldiers. The fort was named Durocornovium, which gave its name to Dorcan Brook, which in turn gave its name to Dorcan, another Swindon housing estate.

 

By the 1st century AD the tribes in the South East of England were to a great extent friendly to the Romans and in most cases the Romans simply passed them by and built their first line of fortifications a bit further north and west than Swindon, with the few known forts inside that area soon abandoned as the Roman military expanded their zone of control.

Now this is interesting, because the signs are that Durocornovium was abandoned at the end of the third century. Why? Were the legions posted elsewhere? In any event, the roman habitation around the area appears to be abandoned from that period, which a resurgence in different locations that ends a century later. There is some caution needed in assuming that Durocornovium was a fully fledged fort, and I do wonder if it was a smaller scale staging post, at least for most of its life.

[Melvadius]

Its known that a marching fort existed near the junction of roman roads on the east edge of what is now Swindon, more accurately near the village of Wanborough, though I must confess I don't know the exact location - must find that in the local library sometime. Nonetheless, the vicus for the fort is nearer Swindon, and roadworks uncovered signs of roman habitation adjacent to the old road. We also know the cemetary is partially buried under a Swindon housing estate. The roman roads join the routes from Cunetio, Venta Belgarum, and Corinium (the second largest town in roman britain), so the road may well have been a busy one at times, and given the pottery kilns found in west swindon and north toward Cricklade, with plenty of trade besides soldiers. The fort was named Durocornovium, which gave its name to Dorcan Brook, which in turn gave its name to Dorcan, another Swindon housing estate.

 

<SNIP>the signs are that Durocornovium was abandoned at the end of the third century. Why? Were the legions posted elsewhere? In any event, the roman habitation around the area appears to be abandoned from that period, which a resurgence in different locations that ends a century later. There is some caution needed in assuming that Durocornovium was a fully fledged fort, and I do wonder if it was a smaller scale staging post, at least for most of its life.

 

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the thought that any marching camp could have a vicus associated with it. By its very definition a marching camp would not be in existence long enought to atract a permanent settlement. I also can find no mention of Wanborough having had a permanent fort in any of my reference books and neither such listed in the Ordnance Survey map of Britian that I have (admittedly dating from 1994). If it has been confirmed by recent excavations I would like to know what evidence/ information the sites and monuments office in Swindon have for it.

 

Having said that there is no conflict with a civilian settlement being walled during the late 2nd or 3rd century, although I would expect that any possible 'fort' in the area would more likely have had an auxilliary garrison than legionary. There is as you indicated good evidence for Wanborough being at a trading nexus - being on several important roads as well as local potteries and a mining/quarrying area. From what I have read there is also a suggestion that the locations on the Antonine Itinery (which lists Durocornovium) may have been supply bases or possibly taxation centres rather than forts - which may explain any evidence of walls at such sites.

 

Melvadius

Edited November 5, 2007 by Melvadius

[caldrail]

I've recently become aware that pottery for the military was big business. They gave up using their own men for that and brought over experts to train locals on technique and form required, especially easy since britain already had a thriving pottery 'cottage industry' since the arrival of the Belgae. Now since the presence of pottery kilns has been found in the area, and also bearing in mind that the Savernake area (that would be Cunetio - north east of Marlborough on our maps ) was known as a pottery source too. So your idea of a supply base has merit. Not completely convinced, but its a good one, and if I find any info on Durocornovium I'll let you know.

[caldrail]

Got this lot from a quick internet browse. See what you think...

 

From http://www.roman-britain.org/places/durocornovium.htm

To the immediate west there were potteries at Whitehill Farm (SU1184) and stone quarries at Old Swindon Hill (SU1483), and villas at Swindon (SU1483), Badbury (SU1980) and Bishopstone Downs (SU2581), and a substantial Roman building at Stanton Fitzwarren (SU1790) to the north.

 

Various sites were discovered and examined during construction work on the M4 Motorway in 1970: an unused bath-house at Badbury (SU194810), small 1st/2nd C. roadside settlement at Finche's Farm (SU286782), a corn-drier of chalk blocks at Baydon (SU290775), a rectangular building within a walled enclosure at Medbourne near Liddington (SU198808) and a roadside settlement at Wanborough Plain (SU240800).

 

From "A Conservation Appraisal of Wanborough" www.swindon.gov.uk/lower_wanborough-2.pdf

A Roman town, Durocornovium, now a Scheduled Ancient Monument, is located not far to the north-west of the village. Lower Wanborough was likely the Saxon successor to Durocornovium.

 

Briefly, the special interest that justifies designation of Lower Wanborough Conservation Area derives from a number of architectural, historic and environmental factors, including - the historic linear street pattern of the village along a length of a former Roman Road and a single side of Rotten Row;

 

From http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/clb_tribe_dobunni.htm

Durocornovium - (Wanborough, Wiltshire) - Major settlement on Ermin Way between Corinium and Calleva

 

From Wikpedia

Wanborough is a village to the south-east of Swindon, Wiltshire, UK. The name is thought to derive from "Wain", i.e. cart. In Roman times the settlement was known as Durocornovium and was a little north west of the current position. Being the last village on Ermin Street before the scarp slope of the Marlborough Downs, horses were watered here before the steep climb off the Oxfordshire plain.

 

From http://www.southmarston.co.uk

The Roman town of Durocornovium was located at Covingham, less than a mile from South Marston, on the junction of two Roman roads, the Ermin Way & the road south to Mildenhall (Cunetio). The Ermin Way connected London via Silchester to Cirencester (Corinium), the second largest Roman town after London. Durocornovium was founded in the First Century as a military camp but it became a merchant town covering more than sixty acres & having a population of several thousand at its peak in 350AD. Excavations were made in the 1970

[Melvadius]

Got this lot from a quick internet browse. See what you think...

 

 

<SNIP>

 

From http://www.southmarston.co.uk

The Roman town of Durocornovium was located at Covingham, less than a mile from South Marston, on the junction of two Roman roads, the Ermin Way & the road south to Mildenhall (Cunetio). The Ermin Way connected London via Silchester to Cirencester (Corinium), the second largest Roman town after London. Durocornovium was founded in the First Century as a military camp but it became a merchant town covering more than sixty acres & having a population of several thousand at its peak in 350AD. Excavations were made in the 1970

Edited November 7, 2007 by Melvadius

[GhostOfClayton]

Sorry about the 'down-time'. I've been out and about, but am now firmly back-at-the-ranch until Christmas. Glad to see this topic has been quite active in my absence, though perhaps not in an encouraging way from my own point of view (come on! Who on this forum wouldn't want a Roman Fort on their doorstep?) The evidence is turning against my earlier theory, but I do have some little snippets that might just breath a bit of life back into the debate.

 

There are some things for me to do:

Firslty, I must try to get a look at the local sites and monuments register - I'll let you know what I find.

 

Secondly, I'll establish the acreage of the site. The map isn't brilliant in this respect, so I'll get out with my GPS this weekend.

 

Thirdly, thanks Melvadius for noticing it in Pevsener. I hadn't thought to look there - I assumed he'd be bogged down by Julian's Bower, and not notice the earthworks next door. I should have been tipped off when I found Stukeley had discovered it. However, that leads to another quandry, though one which may be easier to solve. The southern embankment was replaced recently under the same project as the archeology (details to follow), and a gap was incorporated. My next job is to find out why.

 

I also found the following PDF on the www:

www.planning.northlincs.gov.uk/PlanningReports/NorthLincolnshireLocalPlan/Inset01Alkborough.pdf.

Countess Close is at LC11 / HE8, just southwest of the housing. This clearly shows gaps in the earthworks, North, South and East. Also, where it doesn't show earthworks (on the west), is where there is a hint of the parallel earthworks. I'll have a closer look at the topography when I go out this weekend.

[GhostOfClayton]

Please ignore this posting.

Edited November 21, 2007 by GhostOfClayton

[caldrail]

I must say, looking at your pdf map, my initial instinct is to see a fort. It certainly doesn't look like any other sort of building. That doesn't mean the earth ramparts there are roman - but let us know what you find.

[GhostOfClayton]

I bet you all thought this topic was dead in the water, didn't you? My fault, as I've been working and hence away. Sorry about that.

 

I did get to see the Sites & Monuments Register for Countess Close, and spent a very pleasant few hours going through it with its Custodian at the Museum (many thanks to him for his excellent help.)

 

However, the evidence pretty much mounted up against myself and William Stukeley, I'm afraid, and the Sites & Monuments Custodian persuaded me against its Roman origins.

 

I'll have to settle for the Romano British Ladder Settlement that runs along the escarpment southward from the site. Not as exciting, but it's something.

 

Thanks to all who gave help and opinions.

Edited June 6, 2008 by GhostOfClayton