Aqueduct Engineer Income

[Cassius Loginus]

What was in 79AD:

 

1) the annual income of a aqueduct engineer

2) the price of a standard slave

 

Thanks.

 

 

(At the moment I am reading the novel POMPEII by Robert Harris and I am wondering how much the main character Attilius earned and how much he had to pay for his Greek slave Phylo.)

[Faustus]

What was in 79AD:

 

1) the annual income of a aqueduct engineer

2) the price of a standard slave

 

An interesting comparison 1 & 2. Today in 1970 dollars the cost of a yard of concrete $12. vs an hour of a piece of heavy equipment like a D-8 Dozer $12.00 and again 2007 a yard of concrete $85.00 vs a D-8 at $85.00. Perfect tracking there wouldn't you say?

[Klingan]

It's practically impossible to try to convert any ancient value into normal.

 

As an example a sewer cleaners earned (in A.D 301, so this is quite long after the time frame the book you're reading. The inflation was really messing it all up, we know this from a maximum price edict put up in this year.) 25 denarii per day and a carpenter or baker 60 denarii. Now a pound of pork was worth 12 denarii. By now you see my point. After only one or tow hours of work you can by much more pork today. The lifestyle has changed enough to make the values change too much.

 

Here is an old thread on the subject.

 

The job as Aquarii was, at least in Rome a high ranking work that mostly senators were chosen too. Many of the Urbus Aquarii was in fact consuls at other times in their career. That would make you guess that they weren't paid at all.

[Faustus]

What was in 79AD:

 

1) the annual income of a aqueduct engineer

2) the price of a standard slave

 

An interesting comparison 1 & 2. Today in 1970 dollars the cost of a yard of concrete $12. vs an hour of a piece of heavy equipment like a D-8 Dozer $12.00 and again 2007 a yard of concrete $85.00 vs a D-8 at $85.00. Perfect tracking there wouldn't you say?

 

Here's more. This is on the value of a sesterce and a dollar adjusted to today's values. Make of it what you will and make the final conversions or into any other Roman monetary value. This is in sesterces:

 

The budget of NYC in 1944 was 150,000,000 which was then equal to 1,500,000,000 sesterces as calculated by Will Durant. in his book CAESAR AND CHRIST. He made that statement of relative value on page 337 (Ch XV

[Klingan]

I take it (Even when I very much disagree with that it would be possible to even remotely make an exchange rate like this), that you're talking about the first century B.C Faustus?

 

Remember that the roman coin value changed drastically on more then one occasion.

 

I would say Cassius Loginus, find a list of how much workers earned and how much services and stuff was worth in the time period (in this book 79 A.D) for a fair understanding of the value. I would not recommend trying to convert it into any modern currency.

 

Here is some prices from Pompeii hat I know of:

 

A drink: 1 as

A better drink: 2 assses

Falernian wine: 4 asses

A girl (inn prostitute): 8 asses

Hay for a mule: 2 asses

[Faustus]

I take it (Even when I very much disagree with that it would be possible to even remotely make an exchange rate like this), that you're talking about the first century B.C Faustus?

 

Remember that the roman coin value changed drastically on more then one occasion.

 

I would say Cassius Loginus, find a list of how much workers earned and how much services and stuff was worth in the time period (in this book 79 A.D) for a fair understanding of the value. I would not recommend trying to convert it into any modern currency.

 

Here is some prices from Pompeii hat I know of:

 

A drink: 1 as

A better drink: 2 assses

Falernian wine: 4 asses

A girl (inn prostitute): 8 asses

Hay for a mule: 2 asses

 

Well said Klingan,

 

I think you are right, this sort of thing can never be done with precision. but many times we find it more valuable than drawing numbers out of the air, to make estimates that fall into at least the "realm" of numbers data can provide. Of course computers give us precise answers that everyone takes with a grain of salt, knowing they can't be as accurate as they imply.

 

The reason to convert it into modern currency as Durant did, and I assume that he wasn't talking about fractional parts of a dollar, was for comparing the Total expenditures of Rome (under Vespasian) to the budget of NYC as a way of grasping the proportional values involved.

 

But isn't it possible the Engineer was a nobel task, an honorarium of sorts? In some cases probably so (Sextus Julius Frontinus as head of the water department at the close of the first century (whose books had already made him the most famous of Roman engineers) had already served as praetor, governor of Britain, and several times as Consul. He may have served as a nobel duty. But your ordinary working Junior or professional Civil Engineers would've been paid in hard cash.

 

Maybe the most important comparison that can be made is the one of the slave (property that has upkeep, maintenance, and investment), and the engineer (the professional as contractor bearing the cost of his own upkeep, maintenance, equipment, trasnportation)

 

That's a pretty good deal that you describe above, 8 asses is "cheap" when compared to 1-drink per as, or a good drink for 4 as's. . .

[Klingan]

Here's some more flesh on the currency bone:

 

At the time of Caesar a file and rank soldier earned 900 sesterces a year, a laborer about 1000.

 

At A.D 100 this had changed to 1200 sesterces for a soldier.

 

At this time:

4 asses = 1 sestertius

16 asses = 1 denarius

4 sesterii = 1 denarius

 

 

I have recommended this book before but I will do so again: "As the Romans Did, second edition, A Sourcebook in Roman Social History" by J Shelton" It's most likely the book I use the most whenever I need to know anything about roman social life.

[Faustus]

I have recommended this book before but I will do so again: "As the Romans Did, second edition, A Sourcebook in Roman Social History" by J Shelton" It's most likely the book I use the most whenever I need to know anything about roman social life.

 

Salve Klingan,

 

I'm on my way to get a copy now.

 

And Thank you, I hadn't been able to find any coversions for Sestertius. It appears a rank and file soldier was well paid, as he was provided quarters and food, weapons(?), uniforms(?).The risks came with the job.

 

Today's volunteer military force (USA) has competively raised the pay of a rank and file (pvt/pfc) to that commensurate with the laborer too. When the draft was in effect it was lower or at the very lowest of the common laborer wages (1960 $78/mo = $525/mo in 2007 > caveat: only valuable for some perspective)

[Faustus]

I have recommended this book before but I will do so again: "As the Romans Did, second edition, A Sourcebook in Roman Social History" by J Shelton" It's most likely the book I use the most whenever I need to know anything about roman social life.

 

Salve Klingan, etal,

 

I'm on my way to get a copy now

 

And Salve Amici,

 

Here is an elaboration on the subject of Engineers from one of my favorite authors on Rome - thought you might enjoy this:

 

the following is from Durant

Edited October 20, 2007 by Faustus

[Klingan]

Interesting reading indeed, but I must admit, it feels strange at at least one maybe two points.

 

"the sewers that drained the rural marshes and the city

[Faustus]

Interesting reading indeed, but I must admit, it feels strange at at least one maybe two points.

 

"the sewers that drained the rural marshes and the city