UK Meet 2008

[Augustus Caesar]

Hadrian's Wall Meet 2008

 

DAY TWO - Saturday, 26th July

 

Hadriana and I embarked on a chariot of a smaller nature to those of the national kind (this was our local Metro) and gathered our troops from the barracks for a day

[Nephele]

I'm very much enjoying these! Keep 'em coming!

 

I have a question about the Roman stones in the gardens (that you'd mentioned). Are those stones taken from Roman ruins by the locals, for use in their gardens?

 

The story about the flashing cracked me up! Were y'all offering cheers of encouragement for that girl?

 

-- Nephele

[Augustus Caesar]

Hadrian's Wall Meet 2008

 

DAY THREE - Sunday, 27th July

 

The Sunday saw a slightly more relaxed day although we still had several sites to visit. An early start saw us meet at the Central Station in Newcastle, where Augusta left her luggage for later travel, in order to get a regular bus service to one of the sites along the Wall not visited that often but well preserved. The sites are just to the south of Condercum Fort (Benwell), the second fort on the east of the Wall. We visited the Temple of Mithras which sits within a housing area and although the altars are reconstructed the walls are original. The site is small and one can spend as little as ten minutes there or more if a keen interest is felt. While we took photographs and chatted about the site we decided to make an offering of our own to Mithras and we said a few words of significance.

 

We left the site to walk a short distance to the next one which again lies in a housing area but is exceptionally well looked after. This site is the Vallum crossing and is spectacular to look at. Considering that it is the best preserved crossing point along the Wall I am disappointed it doesn

Edited December 8, 2008 by Augustus Caesar

[Augustus Caesar]

Hadrian's Wall Meet 2008

 

Augustus Caesar's Discussion... a very brief overview

 

The following are a collection of notes used to give my talk on the Wall etc and were used merely to guide my way through the discussion. If you have questions about this or anything else feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer you.

 

The Wall... built as a new frontier to keep out the barbarians to the north it replaced the old frontier that was the Stanegate.

 

The history of the Stanegate is in itself a fascinating one...

 

[Augustus Caesar]

I'm very much enjoying these! Keep 'em coming!

 

I have a question about the Roman stones in the gardens (that you'd mentioned). Are those stones taken from Roman ruins by the locals, for use in their gardens?

 

The story about the flashing cracked me up! Were y'all offering cheers of encouragement for that girl?

 

-- Nephele

 

Hi Nephele

 

Thank you for the comments. One never knows how a tale of the nature I described will be taken but alas I need not have feared. Your question raises a good point. The stones would have been covered over natural time by earth and the fact that the fort and its surrounds were on higher ground would make farming it difficult. However, the Victorians used this very stone to build their walls in the park as I mentioned but as for the local householders - well, no they would not have gotten near it. The houses were built after the area received protection and the park removed so any stone used by them would be brought in from elsewhere. A careful eye would have been kept on the builders of these homes too as the site was well recorded and any missing stone would be easily noticed in the surrounding gardens.

 

The park was built and then removed to make way for the houses which should clarify any doubts about what happened and in what order. The crossing was protected by law and the natural width of what is on view allowed the more modern Victorian era to show as well. Maybe this was to show just what distruction the Victorians did along the Wall. They were more interested in the gentry living it up than historical sites being looked after because they simply did not see their worth. While some parts of the Wall were preserved quite a lot was more than destroyed making it physically impossible to know what the context of the Wall is like in certain parts. Segedunum, whilst being the most excavated fort in the Roman world, in Wallsend where I live, is a superb example of destruction by the Victorians. The vast majority of the foundation stones of the fort have been removed when they built Simpson's Hotel for down and outs. When that was pulled down terraced houses were then placed along Buddle Street (the name of the road that runs straight through the fort in modern times) and these were demolished ready for the millenium year when the fort was fully excavated and a museum and reconstructed and fully working bath house built. When the excavations were being dug only then did the full extent of Victorian destruction come to full notice as well as how much was taken for building Tynemouth Priory etc.

 

I hope that has helped Nephele...

[Augustus Caesar]

I have now uploaded several of the best photographs I took at the UK UNRV Meet at Hadrian's Wall and I appear on one only. Now while that's a good thing it is fair for you all to see me in my 'glory'. The picture concerned was taken by my good lady Hadriana at the Temple of Mithras in Condercum (Benwell) just three miles from the first fort on the Wall. This being the second. The pictures are located in the public galleries under UK Meet 2008 Hadrian's Wall.

 

I hope you all enjoy them... please feel free to comment or ask questions about them.

[Ursus]

Thank you for the full report, Augustus. I envy what seemed a memorable experience.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, AC

We had recently a thread on the potential relationship of the waste of valuable reources (eg Hadrian's Wall Inner Moat or Vallum) with the eventual demise of the Roman Empire.

The Vallum....

20 feet wide and flat bottomed would have been built at the sae time or just after the Wall. Why? It would inhibit movement of the troops if it were built earlier.

20 feet wide and 10 feet deep with two mounds, one either side at 20 feet wide themselves and set back from the ditch by 30 feet. All this gave a 120 feet wide area which could not be crossed unwittingly or unobserved!!!

I understand the Vallun was filled just like a decade after having been built...

Any explanation for that issue?

Wasn't it a huge waste of resources?

[Augustus Caesar]

It was only in the later centuries that the Vallum was filled in and only in certain areas as it wasn't thought essential to the cause. The majority of the Vallum remained in use and quite a lot of it is still visible today, though by no means at its full depth.

 

I can dig out data of where the fills occurred if that is what is required but that may take some research although I would be reasonably confident of geeting pretty exact information. Where was this thread btw? I would be interested in having a read through it.

[Nephele]

Salve, AC

We had recently a thread on the potential relationship of the waste of valuable reources (eg Hadrian's Wall Inner Moat or Vallum) with the eventual demise of the Roman Empire.

 

Thanks for bringing this up, Asclepiades!

 

I had started this topic: The Inner Moat of Hadrian's Wall: Logical Need -- or Foolish Excess?, because I had read in the cited book that the inner moat to Hadrian's wall had been filled in a short time after the construction of the wall.

 

But, Augustus Caesar, you're saying that this moat was actually filled in centuries later? I'd be interested in reading more about this, if you have additional information. Would you like to post to the above referenced thread?

 

-- Nephele

[caldrail]

Without a doubt there is something iconic about Hadrians Wall. The Romans have left us so many relics of their empire across Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, many in far better condition, yet if you ask the average person to name a roman ruin - its a fair bet Hadrians Wall will be on the list..I last visited Hadrians Wall when I was a small child. Those memories of windswept moorland and a mossy line of stones across the hills have faded somewhat. Back then I doubt I had any real understanding of the Wall, nor just how old it was. To me it was a curiosity, a pile of stones left behind, and.a place whose ghosts I couldn't hear.

 

Now I'm somewhat older, hopefully wiser too, and the opportunity to revisit Hadrians Wall with my friends at UNRV was too good to resist. In all honesty I wasn't expecting a great deal, I simply assumed that I was better able to appreciate what the Wall was and what it meant for the legionaries who were taken from their homelands and sent to the very edge of a huge empire.

 

There's no doubt in my mind the location of Hadrians Wall was chosen for practical reasons, given the escarpment that cuts across the north of England there, yet its also hard to accept that it wasn't an instinctive choice. The escarpment marks what is left of a collision in distant prehistory between the landmasses of what is now England and Scotland. It really is an ancient frontier indeed. Since then the lanscape has changed. The hills have been weathered down considerably, the forests that once covered them cleared away. Its that empty bleakness of the border that gives a false impression of loneliness to the modern eye.

 

At Houseteads, the ruins of the fort there are perched on the ridge, overlooking open grassland, with little sign of human habitation beyond the needs of isolated sheep farmers. In roman times it would have been so different. That fort would have a been stout defensive retreat, a home to roman soldiers, and beside it the settlement of Vericovicium housed their civilian neighbours. As far as the eye could see an endless expanse of forest, punctuated by farms, and an aerial photograph of Housteads plainly shows the field boundaries in the valley below, the last remnant of a settlement now long gone. It wasn't just a ruin in the wilderness as it is today, it was a place where people lived and worked.

 

The stonework however does not reveal those lives to you. It doesn't bring the Romans back to life. It merely marks their passing. To hear the ghosts of our forebears, you need something more. At Corbridge the first sight of excavated walls as I turned the corner left me astonished. Laid out before me was the roman town of Corielsopitum. I could see the walls of homes, shops, forums, temples, granaries. A small aqueduct leading to a roadside cistern. This was a cramped, busy place, travellers jostling with traders for space on the road, narrow alleyways and compact architecture, and I felt drawn to it. You could amost here the conversations, the carts, the arguments, all the noise of urban life.

 

But there was still something missing, and that of course was the inhabitants themselves, the Romans and Britons who once lived there. We can never really bring them back to life but perhaps you can glimpse what their lives must have been like. For that, you need the personal touch. You need the ordinary objects and bric-a-brac they used or the evidence of their own words either in letters or commeroative works. At Vindolanda, it was all on display. Fragments of textiles demonstrated the subdued natural colours of their clothing, the elegant simplicity of their leather footwear, the variety of pottery they once handled on a daily basis. Even the rubbish they threw away left us a message about their day to day business. The museum had built dioramas suggesting the rural coarseness of their lives together with the tools they earned their living with. Almost uniquely there are the recovered letters the romans had written to each other,the records of daily administration, little voices trapped on slivers of wood.

 

It was all becoming clear in my mind. I could see the Romano-British way of life. It lacked the comfort we associate with wealthy romans, but then isn't that decadent image a little misleading? Even with the privations of frontier life it was possible to sense a spirit of community, both in the towns and the barracks. I think it was fitting that we visited the reconstructed barracks at South Shields last of all. Here the weathered foundations were made solid, made real, and at last I could hear the ghosts. We wandered into the dining hall and saw the limits of the opulence the frontier was capable of. We stopped at the spartan quarters of the commanders wife, and marvelled at her patience. We saw the communal bunks of the soldiers and felt the weary irritation of being forced to sleep four or eight to a bed. The smokey atmosphere, the gloomy interiors, the pungent smells, even the sight of a modern cat trying to catch a mouse between the buildings lent a reality to it all.

 

We began the weekend by tracing out markings in the pavements in Newcastle. We finished by waving goodbye to the Roman commander of Arbeia and his family.

[Augustus Caesar]

Caldrail has captured here in words what I tried to give each person during the three day event. I attempted to show what little there was at some points to see in areas subsequently built upon. From there the task was to build up a picture slowly of just what it was that the Roman soldiers had to endure... the distant hills rolling off as far as the eye could see giving the impression of loneliness for the legionary or civilian settled outside the fort, the stark reality of which sinks in all too easy for the average visitor who doesn't actually realise that a lot of Hadrian's Wall would be buzzing with activity like trade, troop exercises, folk doing their normal daily routine of visiting friends at nearby camps situated on the edge of the forts etc.

 

The realisation that this would be a busy place does eventually get to one's notice and if the order of your visit to the Wall is done in specific order then you can appreciate all Caldrail has stated. To finish the Meet at Arbeia (South Shileds) was quite deliberate in that it showed the standard of living for the commander and his wife and family to the cramped living and sleeping quarters for the average soldier. It also finally puts into place in one's mind that there was more than just soldiery going on in the north of England. Not much in the way of battles happenedon or around the Wall itself and no evidence of this has yet been found. So, something else must have been going on and hopefully I have given the members on the Meet this year a great insight to this. I didn't mention to anyone the purpose of the order of the visits, nor did I give any clue at the end of the Meet. I merely allow those who attended to make their own minds up.

 

After all, why give my impression of the Wall and its surrounds when the magic is unique to the individual visitor in their own way? Yes I pointed out different things along the way and answered questions to the best of my knowledge which surprised me as sometimes one has to dig deep for the answers! But alas I do hope I left each member with the feeling that they would want to come back and do it all again. If members who did not make it this time can cme along another year I will gladly follow this up and recreate the whole tour and maybe throw in an extra or two... who knows. That is for the members to ask for.

 

So, thank you Caldrail for your report. Members will appreciate the feeling you have put forward here in your attempt to capture what the Wall and its surrounds are about for historical and educational purposes but also for the magical feeling for the modern visitor.

[Augustus Caesar]

Nephele, I will try and dig out some details on this and would join in the chat on that thread if I can find anything relevant. It shouldn't be too difficult so keep an eye open for that one.

 

Salve, AC

We had recently a thread on the potential relationship of the waste of valuable reources (eg Hadrian's Wall Inner Moat or Vallum) with the eventual demise of the Roman Empire.

 

Thanks for bringing this up, Asclepiades!

 

I had started this topic: The Inner Moat of Hadrian's Wall: Logical Need -- or Foolish Excess?, because I had read in the cited book that the inner moat to Hadrian's wall had been filled in a short time after the construction of the wall.

 

But, Augustus Caesar, you're saying that this moat was actually filled in centuries later? I'd be interested in reading more about this, if you have additional information. Would you like to post to the above referenced thread?

 

-- Nephele

[The Augusta]

The Augusta comes out of the closet - wearing armour - Part One

 

Although I cannot compete with Augustus's in depth report of events, I need to add my own 2 denarii on the successful meet back in July, and if the title above piques interest, let me 'out' myself here and now. As someone whose heart is wrapped entirely in the late Republic/early Principate, I have never been the biggest fan of Roman Britain's remains. In fact - big confession coming - until the meet in York last year I had never ventured to any Romano-British site other than Bath (and that was for a Uni Summer School). My area of interest and modest expertise lies squarely within Rome and Italy, and the foreign provinces as such have never really interested me - although I do sometimes dream about visiting Syria. Having said all that, I thoroughly enjoyed both meets here in the UK. The company, the camaraderie and the wealth of knowledge and mutual respect (and affection) encountered both at York and in Northumberland were certainly bigger attractions for me than the actual Romano-British sites themselves. There - I've said it!

 

Hadrian's Wall has a big plus in its favour. It rambles along some of the most stunning countryside in England, and there is nothing quite like taking oneself off to stand on a deserted part of ruined wall to gaze out at the landscape. It is full of ancient magic: unspoiled and formidable, gentle hills and peaks alternate with sloping green valleys and the effect is breathtaking.

 

The Wall has another attraction: the forts we visited were within easy distance of Newcastle, a vibrant, friendly and welcoming city that I shall certainly revisit one of these days. There are also lovely, quaint towns such as Hexham and Corbridge; the exquisitely named hamlets of Once- and Twice-Brewed; the forts themselves, of course, nestling under endless skies and carrying within them just a ghostly trace or two of the men who made them. And all this magic is easily negotiated by the aptly named AD122 bus service.

 

My own particular favourite fort is Vindolanda, which is set against a beautiful backdrop of meandering hills and valleys, and it was at Vindolanda that I inflicted my talk upon the company of legionaries - Augustus, Hadriana, Caldrail and Carolus. When we were first planning this meet, Augustus and Northern Neil decided between themselves that I should take as my topic Aulus Platorius Nepos, the governor of Britain who was best pals with old Hadrian and sent off to the barbaric wilds to oversee the start of his ambitious frontier project in AD 122. My subsequent research on this somewhat forgettable person, resulted in about two paragraphs of dry facts, such as the year he was consul, an odd inscription at Vindolanda to prove he was actually there at some point, and his dubious recall to Rome by Hadrian - apparently the old boy was somewhat prodigal with the Emperor's funds and Hadrian made his displeasure known publicly. Nepos was hauled back to Rome never to be heard of again. Even the most garrulous of speakers could not spin that one out into 20 minutes!

 

Defeated by Nepos, I therefore scoured about for something I could discuss with a modicum of intelligence and knowledge. Augustus's stipulation was that the talk had to have something to do with the Wall. As I knew less about Hadrian's Wall than I do about particle physics, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown with only a week to go until the meet. I toyed with topics such as 'Hauntings along the Wall' (parts of it are said to be haunted); I even wondered if I could get away with a sort of 'Talking Heads' sketch a-la Alan Bennett, in which I would write a monologue from old Nepos's point of view and moan about life among the barbaric Brits, but a script that would run to 20 minutes takes one hell of a lot of writing - trust me, folks! I jettisoned that one as pressing work matters intervened etc.

 

So, with two days to go I decided I would rattle on about something close to my heart: Writing Roman Fiction. It was a hand to mouth effort - which I'm sure showed. I had made no notes and had to extemporise. Thankfully, the landscape helped - crying out 'Mention me - Mention me'. My purpose was to give an overview of what sources an author uses in recreating the Roman past - some that may not be obvious. Not only does one need a thorough knowledge of the history of the period, but intimate details of everyday life and the setting of the novel/story are also essential. It is not enough to use exant literary sources, but archaeology, coins, landscape, epigraphy etc. The famous Vindolanda Tablets, for instance, detailing such mundane things as lists of items required by soldiers posted at the fort, give the kind of everyday, intimate evidence that could be used in research for a story. What things were considered important by those soldiers, for instance; the items that were readily available and those that were not. Historians are experts in extracting information from such tiny things as this, and to a degree the writer of fiction needs to employ similar skills to build up a picture of life at Vindolanda through the ages. I must just give a mention to Calders here. He took a very interactive part in my talk and fired umpteen questions at me, which resulted in further discussion - so thanks for that, Calders!

 

As Augustus has reported, our last fort of the day on Saturday was Housesteads. Now, this is a fantastic site, built as it is against a long stretch of wall with all those famous views I talked about before, but I was glad that Hadriana was with me to help me down the winding path after our visit. Housesteads is not for the faint-hearted, nor the ill-shod. I am still in awe of Caldrail's march down the path and back up in record time! There was a wistful moment at Housesteads, when one of the re-enactors in full legionary regalia was sitting all alone on a stretch of the Wall, gazing out into the distance, as though looking for marauding Scots. He and I were alone against the landscape and I had a tremendous feeling of stepping back in time and watching a poor Roman legionary longing for home. For me, history will always be about the people who shaped it. I do have to add that Augustus gave us a very informative talk here about the building of the Wall itself and the history of the various forts along it.

 

I will chime in with part 2 of this report tomorrow - which will deal with Arbeia - the account of which may be in slight disagreement with that of Augustus. (I did say I was wearing armour.)

[caldrail]

Now that we've all written our reports, it's time to test you all on whether you've read it! So, here are some questions to test your knowledge of the UNRV 2008 UK Meet...

 

1 - What did Charles become after losing a game of 'Shut The Box'

a - Bitter and twisted

b - A newt, but he got better

c - Hopelessly demoralised

d - Didn't play anymore

 

2 - What did Caldrail say to the man at the door at Vindolanda?

a - Get a move on mate...

b - I want to go through that door.

c - No thank you, I'm British.

d - Do you take Visa?

 

3 - Who did we discover the medieval inhabitants of Newcastle to be?

a - Chinese

b - Seriously untidy

c - Football supporters

d - Two foot tall

 

4 - What interrupted Caldrails talk on Hadrians foreign policy repeatedly?

a - His audience

b - His brain

c - The Denmark Ferry

d - Museum officials in a desperate attempt to preserve history as we know it.

 

5 - Why did we start late on Sunday?

a - So the Augusta could finish her coke bottle

b - So Caldrail could visit the beach

c - So Augustus Caesar could find something to show us

d - So everyone could recover from Caldrail

 

6 - How many burgers did Caldrail eat without anyone knowing?

a - His secret fetish was satisfied but once

b - An all out attack upon burger bars across Newcastle

c - His slaves returned from their forage with none

d - He was on a diet.

 

7 - How many times did the Augusta fall asleep on the bus?

a - Once

b - Never

c - We lost count

d - Spent the whole weekend semi-comatosed

 

8 - How many taxi drivers were harmed in the making of this weekend?

a - No recorded injuries or fatalities

b - One went without breakfast

c - Two collided after a woman attempted a moon in a burger bar

d - Several suffered ribcage injuries after observing us wander starry-eyed through Newcastle

 

9 - Who had the most seashells of the weekend?

a - Caligula

b - The Roman Legion Re-enactment Society

c - Neptune

d - Caldrail

 

10 - Who was the Bestiarius who attempted to stop the cat from eating a mouse at Arbeia?

a - Caldrail

b - Augusta

c - Charles

d - Augustus Caesar

 

Answers

1a, 2b, 3d, 4c, 5a, 6a, 7a, 8b, 9d, 10c.

+1 point for every succesful attempt to gain Newcastle Metro tickets

+1 point for believing Caldrail scored five in 'Shut The Box'

+1 point for still being able to sit cross-legged like Charles

+1 point for every breath you observed Augustus Caesar make during his after-dinner story

-1 point for every correct answer to the Augusta's crossword puzzle

-1 point for every mention of Caldrails obesity

-1 for not making it up the south face of Mt Housesteads

 

If your score was....

10 or more Hercules himself could not achieve such scholarly distinction. You shal be feted, cheered, and quite probably stabbed in the back at some point.

7-9 Exceptional. A glittering senatorial career awaits you, but alas, the throne will be forever out of reach..

4-6 An able score. Limp to the senate house and dribble quietly please.

1-3 Hmmm... Better stick to orgies I think. Quizzes are a bad career move for you.

Zero or less Oh dear. Looks like the arena for you. I want a good clean fight, no cuts above the eyebrows, and don't come back to the changing rooms before you've expired in dramatic fashion.

 

 

Oh hang on, the Augusta hasn't finished yet....

Edited December 10, 2008 by caldrail