Regional accents

[docoflove1974]

But if we can now return to the actual beginning - does anyone have anything to offer as to WHY regions evolved with different accents in the first place? Is this because certain tribes settled in certain localities, bringing their own nuances of whatever ancient tongue they spoke? What has made a Cockney sound so different to a Scouse? Does this go back to the very start of ancient Briton? I can more or less put a picture together of the Viking invasion leaving its mark on the accents of the North, but what is the provenance of southern accents? Is this Norman influence? Latin etc? Hehe - as for our Queen's very, very clipped English - one can actually hear the German of the Hanoverians in her voice. Royalty have had this influence for two hundred years, which is why the phrase 'The Queen's English' makes me giggle.

 

The 'why' is often complicated, and really depends on what linguistic theory you subscribe to. For example, the linguistic theory that I'm focusing on now in my research holds that these 'dialects' evolve given the circumstances, and much like biological Darwinian evolution has genes and replicators, language has utterances and speakers that use certain utterances more than others. So far it works ok, but it's still very very very early in the testing phases. Another theory, mostly associated with the work of James Mallory, says that each speech community is essentially a 'network', and that people have their own way of speaking because it's a sense of identity. Furthermore, the stronger the ties to the community, the more likely the person will continue to associate the manner of speech to their identiy. However, once a speaker associates with more and more networks, there are weaker ties to all of these networks, and they bring not only changes to the various speech communities, but there tends to be a 'common dialect' that comes out of all of this interaction. This theory is based originally on the work in the 60s and 70s by William Labov, and includes work from Fuctionalist theory (topics for another thread).

 

Essentially, the 'why' has many, many reasons...sometimes it's identity, sometimes it's evolution, and most times the 'how' discussed earlier (by me and others) is intertwined in the answer. Does this help?

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

My wife's aunt emigrated to Toronto, Canada nearly forty years ago and speaks like a true Canadian that is until she comes back to Leeds and gets together with her sister and the rest of the family, within hours her Yorkshire accent starts to slowly return and by the time she's ready to go back to Toronto it's as if she's never been away. It's so funny to hear, first it's the odd word that changes and then eventually she could walk onto the set of Emmerdale (a soap opera set in the Yorkshire Dales) and not even look or sound out of place!

[docoflove1974]

My dad's the same way. My grandparents were from "Miz-uh-rah" (aka Missouri), and the area where my dad grew up in Sacramento (and, indeed, much of the Central Valley of California) was predominantly populated with peoples from Texas, "Indian Territory," and the Ozarks (think the Dust Bowl era, which is when my grandparents came out; for a literary reference, Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath); everyone's there because of agriculture or the military (at one time there were 5 active military bases in a 50 mile radius of Sacramento). So everyone on that side of the family has a distinct accentuation which I would term 'South-Central America'--if you talk to someone from rural Illinois, Missouri, northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, that's the general idea.

 

Well, dad left home at 17 to join the Air Force, and educated himself in whatever city he's resided in...so much so that on average you'd never know that he came from a 'Rural Middle America' linguistic background. Now, when he gets around his family, the accent comes back. Full force. And it usually takes him a good 24 hours to return to his 'regular' manner of speech.

 

Again, I'd say that's normal. We identify with a certain group, and take on certain affects of speech in order to 'fit in'; I think many linguists would feel comfortable with that statement. It's also a question of register; I've maintained for years that the Royals might speak Queen's English in the public, but behind closed doors, when they let their proverbial hair down, that they are all Cockney speakers *giggle*

[Nephele]

As for me, I grew up being told I have a "typical New York Jewish accent."

 

...for a non english speaker, would that sound something like Seinfeld? (oops, i mean Elaine )

 

No, I don't sound like Elaine. While the actress who plays Elaine is of Jewish descent, the character of Elaine is a shiksa -- with shiksappeal.

 

I've been told I sound like the character Gracie Hart in the movie Miss Congeniality: "I'm sorry. I had a bite of my bagel and I forgot to pray. Dear Jesus, please forgive me... ...for not praying before I had a bite of my bagel and schmeer. Thank you very much. Amen."

 

-- Nephele

[Vercingetorix]

I honestly don't remember ever encountering a Brooklynite who actually said "deese" and "dose."

-- Nephele

 

Come to my neighborhood and you'll hear it....and I live in East Central PA!! My friend from North Carolina always thought I was from Brooklyn, although I, like Lost Warrior, never lived outside of PA. Some people think we speak with a "Philly" accent. The county I live in is about as culturally diverse as the whole of Europe. Many different ethnicities settled here when "coal was king". If you go 7 miles SE from my hometown, the people are "Dutchified" (my late paternal GM), but if you go about the same distance in the opposite direction, you'll hear an Irish brogue (my maternal GM). I was raised in the middle, so my speech has a mix. Locals can always tell where someone is from in my county by the way they speak & certain phrases they use.

 

When my Dad was in the Army stationed in Indiana, he walked into a bar and the bartender could tell exactly what town he was from by the way he spoke. The guy was originally from the same county & could pick my Dad out immediately.

[The Augusta]

Essentially, the 'why' has many, many reasons...sometimes it's identity, sometimes it's evolution, and most times the 'how' discussed earlier (by me and others) is intertwined in the answer. Does this help?

 

It certainly does, Doc - and as ever, you have given me much to ponder.

 

And while we're on the subject of colourful local and regional accents - may I just mention that the day they fall from our language (whatever our country) will be a sad day indeed. I always think an accent helps to characterise a person - and not in any negative way at all. In this present climate where we are breeding a generation of very grey, characterless people (well, in Britain at least) I hope we can strike a blow for the good old accent.

 

As an aside - there is a footballer who plays for Aston Villa (Gabriel Agbonlahor) who is obviously of African birth but came to England at a very early age. Playing as he does for Villa he has developed the most gorgeous Birmingham accent overlaying his natural African voice, and the result is absolutely stunning. I can listen to this guy being interviewed over and over again. It's character and colour and charm and all wonderful things! I would never have noticed this guy (he's a decent enough footballer but nothing special) had it not been for his accent - his whole character springs into life when he speaks.

 

Does anyone else feel attracted to regional accents in this way? Do we see them as part of our heritage that we must protect - or do most people on the Forum feel that they are not that important?

[Gaius Octavius]

As for me, I grew up being told I have a "typical New York Jewish accent."

 

...for a non english speaker, would that sound something like Seinfeld? (oops, i mean Elaine )

 

No, I don't sound like Elaine. While the actress who plays Elaine is of Jewish descent, the character of Elaine is a shiksa -- with shiksappeal.

 

I've been told I sound like the character Gracie Hart in the movie Miss Congeniality: "I'm sorry. I had a bite of my bagel and I forgot to pray. Dear Jesus, please forgive me... ...for not praying before I had a bite of my bagel and schmeer. Thank you very much. Amen."

 

-- Nephele

 

My Bride had to tell me what a 'shiksa' is: A non-Jewish female.

In NYC you'd better know what a 'schmeer' is: Cream cheese on a bagel (with lox, of course).

'Schmata', a rag; a$10,000 dress that a Jewish American Princess (JAP) hasn't returned to Sak's Fifth Avenue.

 

To really go . If you ever get the chance to go to a Jewish wake, do so to the exclusion of all else. They put out a spread that is a joy to the palate.

[spittle]

Northern English has stayed more true to its germanic roots. thats why a Yorkshiremans pronounciation of 'open' (phonetic - 'op-en') is similar to the german 'Ofen' while down south they have adopted French/Romance influences and it has become 'Ow-pen'

 

In Newcastle they can describe any woman as a 'wife' or 'wifey'. This lack of distinction concerning a womans marital status is another German influence. I also find the Geordie accent has the 'sing-song' rhythm of the Scandinavians. Imagine the chef on The Muppett Show. This is just my own perception and I have no data to connect Geordie to Viking. The books state it is Germanic influence.

 

My Polish friends have no idea where their fellow Poles originate based on accent yet, here in England, when a hoax recording was sent to the police during the Yorkshire Ripper scare of the early 80's, experts were able to narrow the search to 2 HOUSING ESTATES (Not towns or even villages, HOUSING ESTATES!) in Sunderland based purely on the accent of the hoaxer.

 

And finally, in my home town of Barnsley (which has the strongest Yorks accent) I can tell from which village certain speakers come from. In Darton/Mapplewell it is very strong "Tha' usin' t'internet?". Whilst Royston as traces of midlands still due to it being flooded by people from the black country at the beginning of the last century.

 

Can anyone explain the influences in Brummy or Yam? (Birmingham or Dudley).

 

To answer The Augusta's question....I feel reginal accents are very important and add a huge amount to the tapestry of life. Unfortunately they can cause embarrassment and invite certain types of person to prejudge. Just watch television to see how a regional accent is used to convey an instant snapshot of someone's character. Buckingham (The Tudors) has a Yorks accent to point out his lack of guile.

Edited October 13, 2007 by spittle