Moesian Wall.

[Gaius Octavius]

I saw this on a map of the Empire (which I can no longer find). Oddly enough, I remember it as being in Rhaetia!

Can anyone speak on it? It was on the northerly side of a river. One of Hadrian's constructions?

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[caldrail]

Probably, though I admit I haven't heard of this one before. The defensive and consolidation strategies of hadrian have led some people to think that the empire was effectively being turned into a fort. Thats wrong in my view. Walls were used to control traffic across a border, although the defensive qualities might also prove useful. They were security barriers rather than elongated castles, and some scholars regard hadrians wall as 'over the top' for precisely that reason. However, bear in mind the visual impact of a whitewashed defensive work of that size. It suggested power, it said Rome was the other side and staying put. Hadrians wall travelled from coast to coast because the length is short enough to complete that task and provide full coverage against scots who wanted to supply rebellious english with weapons for instance. In other places a complete wall wasn't considered necessary. We see this phenomenon in africa, where there are isolated sections of wall to control the comings and goings of nomads. Given the peaceful strategies of hadrian it was also necessary to keep troops busy, and what better than major engineering projects like border fortifications?

[ASCLEPIADES]

I saw this on a map of the Empire (which I can no longer find). Oddly enough, I remember it as being in Rhaetia!

Can anyone speak on it? It was on the northerly side of a river. One of Hadrian's constructions?

Salve, GO!

 

You should better search under the term Limes "border", the name given by the Romans to the fortifications built over most of the Imperial frontier zones, as the Hadrian's and Antoninian Walls between Britannia and Caledonia (Limes Britannicus).

 

Maybe your map was something like this:

 

 

You were talking about at least two different Limes:

 

The most famous is the Upper Germanic-Rhaetian; here comes a quite informative Link from UNESCO

 

The other one should be the Limes Moesiae at the Balkans, much less documented online.

 

For an excellent general introduction and plenty of information about both Limes and many others, you can check out the website of Jona Lendering.

 

I hope this may be useful.

Edited October 5, 2007 by ASCLEPIADES

[Andrew Dalby]

I saw this on a map of the Empire (which I can no longer find). Oddly enough, I remember it as being in Rhaetia!

Can anyone speak on it? It was on the northerly side of a river. One of Hadrian's constructions?

 

I don't have an answer ... this is just thinking aloud ...

 

Moesia was the province (later, pair of provinces) that fronted on the lower Danube from (very roughly) the modern Belgrade area down to the Black Sea. So, if there was a Limes Moesiae (or whatever) it must have been in that region: I don't see how it can have been in Rhaetia.

 

I can't find a map (apart from Asclepiades' above!) showing a Roman structure that matches. Theoretically, the most obvious places would be

 

1. across the neck of the region now called Dobrogea/Dobruja, approximately where the Tropaeum Traiani stands; but I don't know a period when the Romans had a defensive line across there, I thought the Danube itself was their frontier. This would be the southernmost of the three 'Limes Moesiae' lines on Asclepiades' map

 

2. Somewhere north of the lower Danube, in the lowland region later called Tara Romaneasca/Wallachia, and on towards southern Moldavia. After Trajan's conquest of Dacia, some of that region belonged to the Dacian provinces; some of it (I think) *might* have belonged to Lower Moesia; much of it was never really taken into the Empire at all. Its status seems pretty vague really ... Very possibly a defensive line was drawn across it at some stage. What I'm talking about here would the the middle or northernmost of the three lines on Asclepiades' map

Edited October 5, 2007 by Andrew Dalby

[Andrew Dalby]

A further comment -- the book that I recently reviewed for UNRV included an article by Liviu Petculescu about this region. He uses the term "Limes Moesiae Inferioris" for -- essentially -- the Danube line itself, which was defended by a series of forts and a fleet, not by a wall. If you want to look at that article, here's a pdf of it . A very good article, I thought.

[ASCLEPIADES]

A further comment -- the book that I recently reviewed for UNRV included an article by Liviu Petculescu about this region. He uses the term "Limes Moesiae Inferioris" for -- essentially -- the Danube line itself, which was defended by a series of forts and a fleet, not by a wall. If you want to look at that article, here's a pdf of it . A very good article, I thought.

 

Salve, AD.

 

Excellent link indeed.

 

Gratiam habeo.

[Kosmo]

That map it's awfuly inaccurate and should not be given a second look!

 

I think AD had put things clear enough.

There is some debate about this 3 defensive lines and their use. They were made from an earthen palisade and a ditch so not much survived. Some even debate they are of roman or principate origins.

I would love to know more...