Joining a legion

[Primus Pilus]

Also remember Vegetius was VERY much late empire, so his writings do not reflect requirements for earlier periods, say scipionic or caesarian legions.

 

Yes, but his claim is regarding the "ancients", though his admitted goal was to impress upon the emperor how the old ways were best. However, since no other surviving source that I am aware of indicates a height requirement for recruits, we are indeed very much left wondering where this information came from.

[caldrail]

I find it rather hard to believe that the Romans would require someone to be a full five inches taller than average in order to join the legions. I know this rule was broken, and that that "ideal" was not always met, but it seems to me that if the average man was only 5'4 expecting to be able to find that many who were 5'9 seems a bit unrealistic, considering how many they must have wanted for the legions.

The average height was indeed a modern 5'4". The desirable height for a new recruit to the legions was above average, for obvious reasons. Nero, when selecting his special guard, chose men at around a modern 5'9" or higher. There were people of this size, and it should be remembered that germans in particular were known for tall height, like many barbarian peoples, due to their meat-rich higer protein diet. We're dealing in a violent time. Life was short, brutal, dangerous. People who lived back then accepted that as the norm, and and once someone of a greater size discovers the advantage of physical presence and prowess he'is likely to find his way into a violent vocation - Size matters! Also remember the size of the recruitment pool, and that at its largest the roman army (albeit fragmented into factions) ran to something like 60 legions. Thats around 300,000 to 350,000 men in arms across the entire roman world, out of a total population of 28 million (estimate for the late 2nd century AD). Not all of these men were of the required height given the need to find men willing to serve 25 years and if sufficiently impressive the recruit may have passed for service if a little smaller. The availability of larger barbarians was another factor in the employment of foreign auxillaries.

 

Not only that, but height is genetic and I don't think that diet has too terribly much to do with it. It would, but only after many many many generations! If you take someone who's been eating meat all of their life, and make them eat only corn and grain, they certainly don't shrink!

People don't shrink because their diet changes? I'm not that well versed in human biology, but I'd agree that they wouldn't get smaller quickly! I should point out that there is a tendency for people to get smaller in old age, though whether that has any connection to diet I can't say.

 

The diet in early life is very influential to your physical state in later life. Modern japanese for instance are often over six feet tall these days, whereas in medieval times not even close. This is purely due to improved diet. A poor diet restricts the capacity of the human to grow and lets face it, regardless of political correctness concerning food, a great many people in older times ate absolute rubbish (I'm aware how much of our modern food is too, but there's a lot of quality food on sale and modern hygiene requirements help a lot! At least we have the choice)

[Lost_Warrior]

The diet in early life is very influential to your physical state in later life.

 

I agree, I had forgotten this point.

[Lex]

The diet in early life is very influential to your physical state in later life.

True, diet does play a vital role, genetics may determine a person

Edited October 6, 2007 by Lex

[Melvadius]

Also remember Vegetius was VERY much late empire, so his writings do not reflect requirements for earlier periods, say scipionic or caesarian legions.

 

I would agree that Vegetius is very much later Empire so should be used with caution as to how accurate a picture of the period he paints although to be fair for all we can tell he may well have been basing at least some of his comments on Roman documents now lost to us.

 

Regarding the Roman military being mainly vegetarian this may well not have held true for the auxiliaries with some of the Vindolanda tablets including pork and other meats in lists of food items that presumably were being eaten by at least the centurions and/or optios at Vindolanda in the early second century AD:

 

http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/4DLink2/4D...isplayEnglish=1

[caldrail]

Its fairly obvious legionaries ate what was readily available. For that reason, and also given the corn ration they were supplied with, then porridge and bread were staple foods of your common soldier. Meat was eaten when it could be bought, found, or simply 'acquired'. Beef does not appear to common although perhaps britain was an exception? Obviously if vegetables were available instead then thats what they ate. Unlike gladiators, who were fed almost exclusively on barley, a soldier would take grave exception at eating what was considered animal food and something used as punishment.

[caldrail]

Before the Marian Reforms, there was no standing army at all. If you wanted to fight in the legions you would have to wait for war to break out, when a levy was called for (that's what the word legion means) and a legion formed traditionally for one year, or more likely, the duration of hostilities. A place was announced and volunteers would head their. What follows was a long winded selectioon parade in which each man was chosen individually rather like kids choosing betweeb their mates in turn for a game of football. Each man had to swear an oath of service too.

 

There is a description of the procedure in the sources which I wrote up on these forums before, but I can't find it.

 

With regard to later legionary recruitment, this was done according to need. Of course there was probably no reason why you couldn't knock on the door of the nearest fort and ask to be be enlisted, but apparently recruitment details were sent to find suitable youths in settlements, often at some distance from the legion. Recruits were given a modest amnount of spending money and escorted to the fort by experienced legionaries.

 

I don't know of any mention of recruitment officers stationed at forums, but it might have happened, although they wouldn't need a huge logbook since they were sending people off in small numbers.

 

In the late empire, we see some dodgy practises emerging where people were recruited against their will, either by force or ruse. There were still volunteers in this period of course - young men are naturally prone to seeking violent lifestyles.