Roman Tragedy and Theatre

[CiceroD]

A source Ive just read in my copy of "The Ancient City" by Peter Connolly and Hazel Dodge that the last Tragedies we know to be performed were in the reign of Claudius. Furthermore, they state that the roman's enthusiasm for comedy also waned.

 

What caused this decline in theatre except perhaps of mime and pantomime?

 

was it perhaps that the arena and races were just more interesting? (as I think)

or

Perhaps it was simply too Greek as an art form like how Greek Athletics were.

 

What does the Forum think?

Edited September 13, 2007 by CiceroD

[Ursus]

Coincidently I was doing some research on Greek drama, and came by the Oxford Classical Dictionary's entry on Roman tragedy. It confirms what you said above but does not offer a great amount of further insights.

 

I too simply believe Rome was a different cultural and political reality than the Greeks, with other forms of amusement - the arena and races, you cite. Consider also that in Greece cultural artisans like actors were revered. In the Roman Republic they fell afoul of the Latin mos maiorum. The first stone theatre wasn't built until Pompei, and even then it had to be disguised as a temple to Venus. Not much of a cultural ground on which to build a love of art....

 

By the way, theatre in Rome may have died, but Hellenophile Romans like Hadrian did fund the theatre in the Greek East.

[CiceroD]

Does anyone have any definite information of how long Mime and Pantomime were popular?

 

they seemed to be more lowbrow for the hoi polloi (pantomime particularly)

[Titus Maccius Plautus]

I don't know much about roman tragedy, but comedy seemed to be relatively popular among the romans, as they had this sort of inclination towars satire, is what Quintus Horatius Flaccus called Italum acetum ( the Italic vinegar), towards shows and irony. That is why playwrights like Livis Andronicus, Naevius, Ennius, Titus Maccius Plautus ( that'd be yours truly! ) or Publius Terentius Afer started to 'compose'. As we can see, the comedy masters lived in the 3rd and 2nd century BC. Anyway, playwrights continued to exist even after these guys, however, their work doen't reach that kind of standards.

 

Ursus is right. The first stone theatre was bulilt in 55 BC. I'm not so sure about the 'disguising' part. The theatre was a public institution strongly related at its origins to the religious life.

 

@CiceroD! Good question about the Mime and Pantomime... I'll see what I can find, (the thing is I don't know much as to when drama started to decline, thus some digging must be done).

Edited September 22, 2007 by Titus Maccius Plautus

[Nephele]

Does anyone have any definite information of how long Mime and Pantomime were popular?

 

they seemed to be more lowbrow for the hoi polloi (pantomime particularly)

 

Actually, mime was the more lowbrow of the two.

 

I know that our Flavia Gemina (Caroline Lawrence) has done quite a bit of research into Roman pantomime, as it figures prominently in her next book The Beggar of Volubilis (not yet published). She's away right now, but when she's back I'm sure she'll be able to shed some more light on the subject here in this topic.

 

In her book, she makes a point of distinguishing between mime and pantomime, the former being the crude, unmasked acting with speaking roles portraying everyday life, while the later consisted of the higher art form which used masks, minimal speech, and portrayed loftier themes such as events from mythology. She describes a pantomime (the story of Diana and Actaeon acted out) in detail in this book, along with the enthralled reactions of her characters on seeing a pantomime for the first time after having been previously exposed to mime.

 

According to William Stearns Davis, author of my favorite old book on Roman social life and customs, A Day in Old Rome, both mime and pantomime were both not only still going strong in Rome right up to the reign of Hadrian, but were both wildly popular with the masses.

 

For the cruder, Roman mime, Davis names two major roles: that of the chief mimus, "who takes the leading part," and that of the strepidus or parasitus, the secondary actor who usually draws the most applause and serves as a clown (with shaven head) that gets slapped around by the chief mime for the amusement of all.

 

Reading Davis' account of mime, I couldn't help but be reminded of Three Stooges comedy, wherein Moe might be identified as the chief mimus, and bald-headed, knucklehead Curly would obviously be the strepidus or parasitus.

 

And all members of the theatre world were given short shrift by polite society, as our Maty (Philip Matyszak) mentions in his book Ancient Rome on Fire Denarii a Day: "Roman law permitted the on-the-spot killing of actors, gladiators, criminals or slaves if caught in flagrante delicto with a wife."

 

-- Nephele

[CiceroD]

Hooray!!! someone finally picked up on this thread.

 

Actually, mime was the more lowbrow of the two.

 

I am not worthy Domina

 

well one thing that can be said for it is that actresses did play female parts in the mime. I guess if your performing lowbrow comedy nothing works quite the same as real cleavage.........or other parts

 

do you think that that is the only reason that they let women on stage?

[M. Porcius Cato]

A source Ive just read in my copy of "The Ancient City" by Peter Connolly and Hazel Dodge that the last Tragedies we know to be performed were in the reign of Claudius.

That can't be right. What about the tragedies of Seneca? What about the tragedies in which Nero performed? Come to think of it, maybe Nero IS the reason for the decline of tragedy. I know if I were forced to watch Nero perform on Broadway, I'd never pick up another Playbill again.

[Nephele]

Hooray!!! someone finally picked up on this thread.

 

Actually, mime was the more lowbrow of the two.

 

I am not worthy Domina

 

You are eminently worthy, m'lord. I am delighted that you thought to include mime and pantomime in a thread on Roman theatre!

 

well one thing that can be said for it is that actresses did play female parts in the mime. I guess if your performing lowbrow comedy nothing works quite the same as real cleavage.........or other parts

 

do you think that that is the only reason that they let women on stage?

 

You've made a good point! (And, as they might say in vaudeville, I imagine the buxom woman on stage made a couple of good points, herself...)

 

The actresses were no doubt a draw to the theatre, as Davis states: "...their presence brings unsteady youths to the theaters like flies, and affairs with actresses are quite normal things with a type of young bloods." Davis also quotes Cicero who, in defense of a certain client named Plancus, wrote: "He's accused of having run off with an actress? Why that's just an amusement excellently sanctioned by custom!"

 

-- Nephele

[Nephele]

I know if I were forced to watch Nero perform on Broadway, I'd never pick up another Playbill again.

 

For shame, MPC. This would have made a better Playbill example!

 

-- Nephele

[M. Porcius Cato]

For shame, MPC. This would have made a better Playbill example!

 

I was looking for that!

[CiceroD]

A source Ive just read in my copy of "The Ancient City" by Peter Connolly and Hazel Dodge that the last Tragedies we know to be performed were in the reign of Claudius.

That can't be right. What about the tragedies of Seneca? What about the tragedies in which Nero performed? Come to think of it, maybe Nero IS the reason for the decline of tragedy. I know if I were forced to watch Nero perform on Broadway, I'd never pick up another Playbill again.

 

Forgive me Cato I misspoke the last original Roman tragedies that we know were performed were written by Publius Pomponius Secundus in "the Claudian Period" I dont know whether that is the reign of Claudius or the Julio-Claudian regime.

[Kosmo]

That can't be right. What about the tragedies of Seneca?

 

Seneca's tragedies were not meant to by played, but readed.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, amici!

 

Caius Suetonius Tranquillus told us a curious anecdote about an augustean tragedy:

(De Vita XII Caesarum, Divus Augustus, Ch. LXXXV, sec. II):

 

"Poetica summatim attigit... Nam tragoediam magno impetu exorsus, non succedenti stilo, abolevit quaerentibusque amicis, quidnam Aiax ageret, respondit Aiacem suum in spongiam incubuisse."

 

"His (Augustus') essays in poetry were but slight... Though he began a tragedy with much enthusiasm, he destroyed it because his style did not satisfy him, and when some of his friends asked him what in the world had become of Ajax, he answered that "his Ajax had fallen on his sponge"."

 

It's a joke; Augustus considered his own play so bad, that it deserved "suicide" by being effaced with a sponge, parodying the mythical Ajax's suicide (by falling on his sword) .

[M. Porcius Cato]

That can't be right. What about the tragedies of Seneca?

Seneca's tragedies were not meant to by played, but readed.

Intriguing. Why do you say this?

[Lanista]

OK, so I'm raising this one from the ashes, but I'm going to ask my scholarly friends here for an answer.

 

From what I'm reading here, women could take part in these bawdy mimes: would this have been possible in the reign of Domitian? From what I've found on the net so far, the general consensus seems to be that actresses were also prostitutes, but I'm not sure that's so. Can anyone help/point me in the right direction?

 

Cheers

 

Russ