longshotgene Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I spent some time at Vindolanda this summer doing research. One question that has plagued me since my return to the United States is, where are all the graves? Over the course of a couple hundred years thousands of people would have been buried or burned up there. Where are their remains? They have a few grave stones, but nothing to warrant many bodies. And plus, the tombs are all of officers and rich women. The bodies were obviously not deported back to their homes. The burial of the well to do is evidence of that. So where did they go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Here is Fiona Petchey on bone degradation : "Little attention has been given to the environmental conditions of bone preservation (Sobel and Berger 1994), however, the quantities and composition of surviving organic materials in a specimen are dependent on their burial environment Environmental factors which have been suggested as influencing the rate at which collagen degrades include the composition, pH and hydrology of the matrix; oxygenation; temperature; and changes brought about by soil flora and fauna (Henderson 1987; Shiffer 1987). In a generalised view of bone degradation the protein component undergoes relatively slow hydrolysis to peptides, which then break down into amino acids. At the same time there is spontaneous rearrangement of the inorganic crystalline matrix which weakens the protein-mineral bond and leaves the bone susceptible to dissolution by the action of internal and external agents (Henderson 1987:44). Alterations during diagenesis are believed to include random cross-linking, humification of parts of the molecule, attachment of exogenous humic materials, and hydrolysis with preferential loss of some amino acids ." which can mean that very variable rates of breakdown occur betwixt a very wet and acidic place like Vindolanda and (say) a dry dessicating desert environment where partial mummification may take place naturally.That is of course if bodies were deposited near the various reincarnations of the Fort , but of course immolation rather than inhumation might account for a lack of evidence . Longshot do you have any plans of the burial sites surviving (or a link to same)? Water is omnipresent at Vindolanda and deep burials decompose fast in such soggy environments with high acidity .Burial without benefit of a coffin will speed decomposition, a shrouded corpse will decompose quickly.I feel queasy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshotgene Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I would agree whole-heartedly with you, but the amount of artifacts which have been found there point to different facts. Whole headdresses of horses have been found at Vindolanda. Mounds of leather shoes have been found as well. To mount on top of this, remnants of horse hair and Centurion headdress have been found. The ground at Vindolanda I have discovered to be prime for the preservation of artifacts. There is a lot of water there. I will grant you that, but the conditions almost seem to be like a bog in nature. I remember from my experiences in Northern Germany that the bogs preserve everything. The ground along the Vindolanda, Birdoswald, and Chesters section seems to be prime for preservation. In fact, at Chesters Fort they have found remains. Not as many as I theorize they should have found, but many. I do know that many of the auxillaries serving at those forts and those areas were still pagan all the way up to the Roman pullout in 410. I wonder if cremation was a big thing up there? The question comes then, were the bones ground up and disposed of, or did something happen chemically after the cremation that caused the bones to break down? Again, where would the pyres have taken place, and where are the remains? So many questions, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 No, No this is exactly what I thought might be the issue..the question is do we have anaerobic ground conditions (where organic objects will survive) or do we have strong sub soil acidity which tears apart the apatite bone matrix.If the sub soil is deep black and foetid then it hints at boglike conditions which would preserve material. The problem is although the decay of human remains is reasonably predictable , the inclusive matrix is the key variable. I will seek out any available info on Batavian funerary customs, LEG GEM XIII might be able to tell us. This is gruesome stuff,, but I do know that the thigh bones are the likeliest survival in any situation indeed in modern cremation they are the remains which require heavy mechanical maceration . The only suggestion I have at present is that with sufficently high temperature any organic matter will be consumed, if charcoal were used as a funerary fuel such a temperature would be achieved..As charcoal was the fuel of choice for quality smelting is this a possibility? Post Scriptum: the soil at Vindolanda is similar to the ground here (i'm about 100 miles from the site) , did Birley make any comment to you regarding the subsoil acidity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 For exposed corpses, the remains vanish after ten years in open air. Animals and nornmal decay soon take away the flesh, the bones disintegrate after a longer period. Regarding the buried remains, it may just be that the cemetary hasn't been found. Roman practice was to bury the dead well away from habitation, and in seperate areas for the underclass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshotgene Posted September 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Pertinax, is it possible by your living 100 miles away that the soil could in fact be that much different? Just by going from Dover to London to Avesbury you encounter several soil types. Just a thought. I do agree with the fact that the graves probably have just not been found. If I remember correctly though about the Bactrians, they did not expose their dead like the native American indians did. I believe they were a inhumation-based culture. The Sarmatians were as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 My remark sounds more trite than intended, we have a similar soil ecosystem here despite the distance. Indeed we have similar topography and weather systems also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshotgene Posted September 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 O.K. I didn't know. Here in the U.S. it is sometimes hard to put things into perspective elsewhere in the world. For instance, where I live it is composed of a thin top soil (4 inches) and then on down it is made up for good old grey clay. If you travel further south, the top soil increases to around 1 American foot or more, with a rocky sub-soil underneath. Below that is bedrock. Where I live, it was affected by the glaciers. Afterwards, it became a swamp. Then it was drained off and became farm land. England is much different from what I experienced. I remember as a kid in Germany seeing the rocky white cliffs in the northern part of the country, much like the White Cliffs of Dover. In the south, it becomes extremely mountainous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 I too live in a region affected by the ice ages. In fact, ten thousand years ago, there were ice cliffs towering over my home up to a mile high or more. Britain does have a complex geology. Chalk, clay, granite, basalt, sandstone, limestone etc. Where I live the victorians had to abandon a railway tunnel under the urbanised hill because of flooding and collapses as they encountered folds of different material. Now whether this affects burials I can't say, but then, burials aren't usually too deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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