The death of the teenager?

[Viggen]

Towns are passing curfews to keep them off the street. Parents are shelling out for gadgets to spy on them. Teens are subject to twice as many restrictions as prison inmates. But U.S. psychologist Robert Epstein says we are wasting a huge human resource: Let them choose when to leave school, work and vote, it's the birth of the new adult.

 

Globe and Mail columnist Margaret Wente recently sparked a vigorous discussion when she described a new book in which Dr. Epstein argues that not only should young people have the same rights as adults, from voting and signing contracts to smoking and drinking but that the designation of teenager should be abolished entirely.

 

What do you think? Are you prepared to see society skip adolescence?

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

Towns are passing curfews to keep them off the street. Parents are shelling out for gadgets to spy on them. Teens are subject to twice as many restrictions as prison inmates. But U.S. psychologist Robert Epstein says we are wasting a huge human resource: Let them choose when to leave school, work and vote

[Moonlapse]

What do you think? Are you prepared to see society skip adolescence?

Absolutely. Adolescence as we know it has only existed for about a century, out of countless years of human existence. However, childhood and dependency has been artificially prolonged far in our adulthood for social reasons and people should be aware of the consequences of changing things like this. I wouldn't say that kids should be suddenly unhindered, but the limitations set in place over the last 100 years should be gradually reversed. The biggest obstacle is our school system, just take a look at how quickly people became adults before the Civil War and scientific social control. If anyone wants to understand the current situation, read Adolescence by Granville Stanley Hall (an important figure in American education and psychology) first published in 1904.

 

That comment from Philosopher King is ironic:

 

Not to be rude, but when I was a teenager I thought and did a lot of stuff that was dangerous, stupid and potentially disasterous. In the end I suspect it was only the continuous messaging from around me as what the boundaries ought to be (even if I ignored them) that kept me from doing even crazier things.

 

While I accept that freedom of choice and the learning of what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in society is incredibly important, the simple fact is that teenagers don't understand repurcussions very well.

 

As such, giving them the right to get credit cards, loans or the like is simply allowing them to be victimized by a system whose only mantra is 'what the market will bear' which I translate as them being allowed to take advantage of inexperienced youth.

 

I myself took on a credit card in university and ended up very much in debt because I didn't understand the ramifications. So, how do you propose to protect the young when you seem to desire setting the world loose on them?

 

Petitio principii at its best. Apparently this person learned about credit cards but not about common sense. Everyone learns the hard way, the earlier the better. The best way to avoid causing yourself harm is to learn to avoid it as early as possible. Children are better equipped to learn and adjust to these things than a 20-something year old adolescent. Teenagers don't understand repercussions because they have been insulated from responsibility.

[Pertinax]

Adolescence? Il n'existe pas.

A false construct indeed, any who have perused Moonlapse's blog entries over the last year or so will have plenty of food for thought.

 

Alongside this I have to give some credit to Jung's comment about adults (in 20th C Western Society) , never achieving adulthood and "going to their graves as children". Senility not being a "final state" but a return to infancy after avoidance of maturity.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I'm a damn adolescent and I sure as hell know too many stupid and reckless teenagers.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I'm a damn adolescent and I sure as hell know too many stupid and reckless teenagers.

 

I'm a damn adult, and I sure as hell know too many stupid and reckless adults (as well as over-cautious ones too).

 

Personally, I don't buy the idea that "adolescence is a modern phenomenon." While it's indisputably true that the legal status of young men and women have changed enormously since the days of Solon, even Solon recognized the "ten ages of man". Simply put, hormones are a biological fact of human existence, and when they first act on the brain of a child, watch out!

 

That said, I have no problem with expanding the civil rights of adolescents--as long as they bear the burden of responsibility that comes with those rights (credit ratings, legal obligations, etc).

[Moonlapse]

Personally, I don't buy the idea that "adolescence is a modern phenomenon."

I'm not sure if you are referring to the biological or conceptual aspect.

 

This is from Elwood P. Cubberley's (Stanford's Dean of Education and Houghton Mifflin textbook editor) book 'The History of Education' page 475, published in 1920:

As the social life of nations has become broader and more complex, a longer period of guidance has become necessary to prepare the future citizens of the State for intelligent participation in it. As a result, child life everywhere has and is still experiencing a new lengthening of the period of dependence and training, and all national interests now indicate that the period devoted to preparing for life's work will need to be further lengthened. All recent thinking and legislation, as well as the interests of organized labor and the public welfare, have in recent decades set strongly against child labor. Economically unprofitable under modern industrial conditions, and morally indefensible, it has at last come to be accepted as a principle, by progressive nations, that it is better for children and for society that they remain under some form of instruction until they are at least sixteen years of age.

I'll refrain from contradicting every point made in the paragraph.

[Moonlapse]

Here's an interesting synopsis of Hall's 'Adolescence.'

http://www.wier.ca/~daniel_schugurensky/as...1/1904hall.html

 

In Adolescence, Hall puts forth a number of theories that work together to conceptualize the existence of adolescence as a stage of life.

Before this, adolescence as we think of it was not a defined concept, children became adults at ages much younger than we think of as 'adult' today.

Hall's book was published at a particular historical period when child labour laws were being enacted, compulsory education laws were being enforced, and high school was coming into formal existence. Also, delayed entrance into the job market postponed adulthood and contributed to the development of the adolescent.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Before this, adolescence as we think of it was not a defined concept, children became adults at ages much younger than we think of as 'adult' today.

 

Adolescence was still a well-defined (psychological) concept prior to child labor laws. The name for the concept was "Youth", which was distinct from childhood and full adulthood. Again, while the legal rights of adolescents (or 'youth') has varied over centuries, there is clearly recognizable adolescent behavior going back to the ancient world. If we think about it a little, I'm sure people can dig up good Roman references to the risk-taking, sexual exploration, and rebellion of young people who were becoming adults (whether their parents and society liked it or not).

 

Off the top of my head, I recall one of Cicero's Philippics chastising Antony for his adolescent escapades with Curio. In the Greek comedies, there is also a terrific scene depicting young lovers being interrupted by three old hags; a scene that would be situationally identical to the horror of finding your grandmother's friends flirting with your teen boyfriend via MySpace.

[ASCLEPIADES]

[Moonlapse]

Before this, adolescence as we think of it was not a defined concept, children became adults at ages much younger than we think of as 'adult' today.

 

Adolescence was still a well-defined (psychological) concept prior to child labor laws. The name for the concept was "Youth", which was distinct from childhood and full adulthood. Again, while the legal rights of adolescents (or 'youth') has varied over centuries, there is clearly recognizable adolescent behavior going back to the ancient world. If we think about it a little, I'm sure people can dig up good Roman references to the risk-taking, sexual exploration, and rebellion of young people who were becoming adults (whether their parents and society liked it or not).

 

Off the top of my head, I recall one of Cicero's Philippics chastising Antony for his adolescent escapades with Curio. In the Greek comedies, there is also a terrific scene depicting young lovers being interrupted by three old hags; a scene that would be situationally identical to the horror of finding your grandmother's friends flirting with your teen boyfriend via MySpace.

Yes, this is obvious, but its not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a sociological/psychological classification which arose in the late 19th/early 20th century to describe dependent, institutionalized young adults who are prevented from participating in adult life. Adult life had started in the teens up until this point. Of course there are similarities between young adults of antiquity and adolescents of today, that's common sense. The difference is that young adults of antiquity were engaged in business and family, whereas adolescents of today are prevented from doing so and exist as a physically mature (or maturing) person in the same dependent and submissive situation that they have been in from birth. Adolescents are old children, created by arbitrary social and legislative limitations. Some people never mature out of adolescence.

[Faustus]

I have long wanted to reply on this topic, but failing a full post: Your attention is invited to a book:

 

THE IMPERIAL ANIMAL (1971) - (catch the author's names). . . Lionel Tiger & Robin Fox)

 

This book explores Animal Behavior and thus of course Human behavior and one of those is the adolescent in society

(some notes: As regards being a teenager otherwise defined by most who

[WotWotius]

Before this, adolescence as we think of it was not a defined concept, children became adults at ages much younger than we think of as 'adult' today.

 

Adolescence was still a well-defined (psychological) concept prior to child labor laws. The name for the concept was "Youth", which was distinct from childhood and full adulthood. Again, while the legal rights of adolescents (or 'youth') has varied over centuries, there is clearly recognizable adolescent behavior going back to the ancient world. If we think about it a little, I'm sure people can dig up good Roman references to the risk-taking, sexual exploration, and rebellion of young people who were becoming adults (whether their parents and society liked it or not).

 

Off the top of my head, I recall one of Cicero's Philippics chastising Antony for his adolescent escapades with Curio. In the Greek comedies, there is also a terrific scene depicting young lovers being interrupted by three old hags; a scene that would be situationally identical to the horror of finding your grandmother's friends flirting with your teen boyfriend via MySpace.

 

Do not forget Hadrian's - along with many other aristocratic Romans at that time - adolescent escapades in the army. Apparently, much to the disappointment of Trajan (then his legal guardian), Hadrian's military career was damaged by his love of hunting - a passion that often distracted him from his duties.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Do not forget Hadrian's - along with many other aristocratic Romans at that time - adolescent escapades in the army. Apparently, much to the disappointment of Trajan (then his legal guardian), Hadrian's military career was damaged by his love of hunting - a passion that often distracted him from his duties.

Even so, Hadrian's military career was impressive indeed in comparison with any other Imperial heir:

 

trib. militum legionis II Adiutricis Piae Fidelis (95, in Pannonia inferior)

 

trib. militum legionis V Macedonicae (96, in Moesia inferior)

 

trib. militum legionis XXII Primigeniae Piae Fidelis (97, in Germania superior)

 

legatus legionis I Minerviae Piae Fidelis (106, in Germania inferior) .

[WotWotius]

Yes, but let's not take this discussion out of context. My point being that the army, for many Roman aristocrats, was a springboard for a 'misspent youth'.