Masada mini series on DVD!

[vespasian70]

Hello all!

 

I wanted to let everyone know that on Sept. 11th Masada the TV mini series from 1981 starring Peter O'toole will be released on DVD.

 

This is one of my favorite films of all time and I'm quite excited it's getting a proper DVD release. If you have never seen it you will not be disappointed.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Correvs]

Found it!

 

http://search.deepdiscount.com/search?w=ma...mp;af=cat1_dvds

Edited September 4, 2007 by Correvs

[Primus Pilus]

Slightly cheaper at Amazon

[M. Porcius Cato]

Ironic that this ode to Jewish terrorists is being released on 9/11.

 

One of the things I liked about Gladiator (even with its exploding chariots) is that it departed from the standard "Rome the Villian"-script that is so evident in Spartacus, Quo Vadis, and Masada.

 

For historical perspective, this mini-series should be packaged with Life of Brian.

[vespasian70]

Ironic that this ode to Jewish terrorists is being released on 9/11.

 

One of the things I liked about Gladiator (even with its exploding chariots) is that it departed from the standard "Rome the Villian"-script that is so evident in Spartacus, Quo Vadis, and Masada.

 

For historical perspective, this mini-series should be packaged with Life of Brian.

 

Actually the script shows the Roman commander Flavius Silva in a very favorable light. He wants peace and fashions a compromise (which in the end falls apart however) with the rebel Jewish leader Eleazar ben Yair. Though the compromise is purely fiction, it does show that not all the Romans were 'villians'.

 

The Commodus depicted in Gladiator was far more evil than any character in Masada.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Actually the script shows the Roman commander Flavius Silva in a very favorable light. He wants peace and fashions a compromise (which in the end falls apart however) with the rebel Jewish leader Eleazar ben Yair. Though the compromise is purely fiction, it does show that not all the Romans were 'villians'.

 

Yes, but the standard "Rome as Villain" show depicts at least one Good Roman. This is par for the course, and it reminds me of a racist with whom I was acquainted who told me--with no hint of irony-- "All N--'s ain't bad."

 

I'm not asking for the Romans to be depicted as all-good, but for their assault on the Masada to be placed in its proper, historical context--i.e., an assault on a group of murderous religious fanatics who had conducted terrorist operations against innocent Jews. In this context, you can have as many or as few Good Romans as you'd like, but at least it becomes clear what was at stake in purging Judaea of these zealots. Instead, the series depicts these backward, religious fanatics as heroic martyrs--which they most certainly were not--rather than as committed enemies of peaceful civilization and Hellenic enlightenment.

 

If there is any doubt about the net beneficence of Roman rule of Judaea, just compare the progress of the region in the seven centuries of Roman rule (up to 638ish) to the seven centuries of rule by the Umayyads, Abbasids, and sundry Arab Caliphates. Just looking at Caesarea between the 7th and 9th century, one sees massive depopulation, the collapse of public buildings to the stone-robbers, and (most tellingly) the loss of the great Herodian harbor; by 1271, the previously magnificent city was a desolate wasteland of squatters. The fact is that Rome protected Judaea from Arab conquest, and the fools who camped out on the Masada were merely making enemies of their best hope for survival, prosperity, and progress. Oh, but then they wouldn't be religiously pure... idiots.

 

On a more friendly note, it's nice to see another Romanophile from Columbus.

Edited September 5, 2007 by M. Porcius Cato

[The Augusta]

Actually the script shows the Roman commander Flavius Silva in a very favorable light. He wants peace and fashions a compromise (which in the end falls apart however) with the rebel Jewish leader Eleazar ben Yair. Though the compromise is purely fiction, it does show that not all the Romans were 'villians'.

 

Yes, but the standard "Rome as Villain" show depicts at least one Good Roman. This is par for the course, and it reminds me of a racist with whom I was acquainted who told me--with no hint of irony-- "All N--'s ain't bad."

 

I'm not asking for the Romans to be depicted as all-good, but for their assault on the Masada to be placed in its proper, historical context--i.e., an assault on a group of murderous religious fanatics who had conducted terrorist operations against innocent Jews. In this context, you can have as many or as few Good Romans as you'd like, but at least it becomes clear what was at stake in purging Judaea of these zealots. Instead, the series depicts these backward, religious fanatics as heroic martyrs--which they most certainly were not--rather than as committed enemies of peaceful civilization and Hellenic enlightenment.

 

If there is any doubt about the net beneficence of Roman rule of Judaea, just compare the progress of the region in the seven centuries of Roman rule (up to 638ish) to the seven centuries of rule by the Umayyads, Abbasids, and sundry Arab Caliphates. Just looking at Caesarea between the 7th and 9th century, one sees massive depopulation, the collapse of public buildings to the stone-robbers, and (most tellingly) the loss of the great Herodian harbor; by 1271, the previously magnificent city was a desolate wasteland of squatters. The fact is that Rome protected Judaea from Arab conquest, and the fools who camped out on the Masada were merely making enemies of their best hope for survival, prosperity, and progress. Oh, but then they wouldn't be religiously pure... idiots.

 

On a more friendly note, it's nice to see another Romanophile from Columbus.

 

Yet another of our MPC's posts that says everything I wanted to say - but he says it so much better!

 

With regard to the stereotypical films of Rome as Villain - this also holds true for the 'one good German' in a war film, and 'one good Russian' in a cold war film, and let us not forget, there was often 'one decent "Injun"' in a Western!

 

But it is very sad that today there are some people who will not allow us to criticise anything in Jewish history without branding us as anti-semitic.

[vespasian70]

I agree with you that the Zealots on masada were not the freedom fighters depicted in the film (or for that matter in any work of fiction I can recall).

 

I like the film on a purely artistic basis, not a historical one. If we were to stick to just the historical facts, the film may not end in the mass suicide that Josephus so passionately wrote about.

 

A Masada film that depicts the rebel Jews as terrorists will perhaps never be made, unless Mel Gibson is up for the job.

 

And yes, it is nice to see a fellow Roman enthusiast so close to home.

[Pertinax]

MPC quote "For historical perspective, this mini-series should be packaged with Life of Brian".

Gross libel, "Brian" is far more accurate!

 

"Mockery of the Jews and their One God should be kept to an polite minimum" quoth the newsreader in HBO Rome II.

[Nephele]

Slightly cheaper at Amazon

 

Even cheaper at DVD Planet. I buy from them all the time, so I can vouch for their good service as well as unbeatable prices. When it comes to DVDs, DVD Planet blows Amazon out of the water.

 

As for the discussion regarding the usual depiction of the Romans as being unrelentingly cruel and without compassion... I just want to mention our Flavia, and a moving piece she wrote in her novel The Slave-girl from Jerusalem.

 

The title character of Flavia's novel happens to be one of a handful of Jewish survivors of the siege of Masada, having been a child at the time of the event. Now grown, she recounts her story of how her mother overheard the men of the city planning in a secret meeting to kill everyone on the eve of the Romans breaking through the walls, rather than allow themselves and their families to be taken prisoner by the Romans.

 

The character quietly tells of how her mother and another woman gathered up some children to hide. As they wait hours in the dark for the Romans to find them, fearing the worst, they finally hear the approaching hobnailed footsteps of their enemies.

 

But, surprisingly, instead of being confronted by hardened soldiers intent on finishing off any Jewish survivors found... "Those two Roman soldiers began to weep and praise the gods and the young one took each one of us in his arms and kissed the top of our heads. Even mother. Even old Anna... He was so happy to see us alive. You see, all the other Jews in Masada were dead."

 

Flavia's novel is of course a work of fiction, and doesn't focus entirely on Masada. But that one, poignant scene of the title character telling her personal story of a small group of Jewish survivors and their unlikely Roman rescuers, that alone makes Flavia's novel something I'd pay good money to see filmed and packaged in DVD.

 

And (unlike the newly released DVD of Masada), I wouldn't insist on a rockbottom, bargain price for Flavia's filmed novel, either.

 

-- Nephele

[M. Porcius Cato]

Flavia's novel is of course a work of fiction, and doesn't focus entirely on Masada. But that one, poignant scene of the title character telling her personal story of a small group of Jewish survivors and their unlikely Roman rescuers, that alone makes Flavia's novel something I'd pay good money to see filmed and packaged in DVD.

 

Wow--that is refreshing! It's so nice to read an author who realizes that historical accuracy doesn't stop at knowing when Romans quit serving the dormouse--historical accuracy means conveying the whole context of events, not just the details. Also, I won't say that I'm surprised that this level of care was put into a "children's book". Rather I'm disappointed that more children's books aren't held to the standard that Flavia set.

 

BTW, I do agree with Vespasian Columbopolii that historical accuracy shouldn't be whole standard for judging historical fiction. But I do want to see the Romans depicted in a more favorable light--when they deserve it.

[guy]

M. Porcius Cato said:

BTW, I do agree with Vespasian Columbopolii that historical accuracy shouldn't be whole standard for judging historical fiction. But I do want to see the Romans depicted in a more favorable light--when they deserve it.

 

I really enjoyed this controversial article by Israeli scholar Nachman Ben-Yehuda about the Masada siege. The article challenged some of my long held beliefs. 

 The subject has not been solved. It may never be solved, but it is a good example of the historical record and archaeologic evidence being used to better understand the past.

 

http://www.deportati.it/static/upl/be/benyehuda,themasadamyth.pdf

 

https://bibleinterp.arizona.edu/sites/bibleinterp.arizona.edu/files/images/ZiasJuly3 revised9.pdf

Edited September 7 by guy

[Nephele]

I really enjoyed this article by Israeli scholar Nachman Ben-Yehuda about the Masada myth. The article challenged some of my long held beliefs.

 

guy also known as gaius

 

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/masadamyth1.htm

 

Intriguing article, Guy. I wouldn't have expected a better job from Snopes.com or StraightDope.com, in getting to the root of the story. As Nachman Ben-Yehuda writes:

 

When And Why Was The Masada Mythical Narrative Created?

It is not too difficult to establish the fact that the Masada mythical narrative was created by secular Zionism. (Religious Jews, Zionists and non-Zionists were, to a very large extent, not part in the creation of the myth. Many even objected fiercely to the myth). It is clear that the Masada mythical narrative began to be created at the turn of the century. It received a big boost in the 1920s. Before he 1920s Masada, as an heroic tale, was used in a debate between two famous secular Zionist ideological leaders (Achad Ha'am and Berdyczewski). In 1923 the excellent Hebrew translation of Josephus by Dr. Simchoni was published. In 1927 Y. Lamdan published his most popular Masada poem. Moreover, two key and powerful secular Zionists who were promoting Masada as a heroic tale, Shmaria Guttman and Prof. Yoseph Klosner, were operating in the late 1920s and early 1930s.

 

Additionally, Nachman Ben-Yehuda compares the Masada legend to some undeniably genuine Jewish heroes (among other, non-Jewish heroes): "We must remind ourselves at this point that there are plenty of historical examples of real, remarkable and heroic 'fighting to the last.' For example... the Jewish revolt in the Warsaw Ghetto..."

 

-- Nephele

[Flavia Gemina]

... I just want to mention our Flavia, and a moving piece she wrote in her novel The Slave-girl from Jerusalem...

-- Nephele

 

Thank you, Nephele, my faithful promoter! The BBC are about to film The Slave-girl of Jerusalem at Boyana Studios in Bulgaria, and guess what? They are going to cut out the whole Masada back story! But that's because they are doing it as a one hour episode for TV and not a feature film.

 

BTW, two other 'real' characters who appear in Slave-girl are the two Roman soldiers mentioned by Josephus earlier in The Jewish War, one of whom jumps from the burning portico of the Temple into his companion's arms during the sack of Jerusalem.

 

Flavia

[vespasian70]

I'm very pleased to see Caroline Lawrence here on the boards.

 

As a major collector of historical Roman fiction I have of course added The Roman Mysteries series to my collection a while ago. I was very pleased at the depth of research that went into each book and was quite entertained with the story as well. My little nephews love the copies I bought for them too.

 

I only wish the TV series was shown here in the States, from the tantalizing bits I've seen online they look very well done.

 

Great article you posted Guy, I came across it sometime ago and lost the link. Thanks for posting it.