Meteor Shower

[Northern Neil]

Many, many thanks for that. I also forgot to mention I have a pair of 120mm binoculars - massive things, like two pint glasses strapped together. I preferto use these than the 'scope - star fields and the Andromeda Galaxy are just breathtaking through these.

[Faustus]

Many, many thanks for that. I also forgot to mention I have a pair of 120mm binoculars - massive things, like two pint glasses strapped together. I preferto use these than the 'scope - star fields and the Andromeda Galaxy are just breathtaking through these.

 

Of interest: SS433 ; One of the oddest stars in the galaxy, then discover the cosmos for Astronomy Picture of the Day Archive

 

Enjoy!

 

Faustus

 

------------------

 

And that inverted Bowl we call The Sky, Whereunder crawling coop't we live and die,

Lift not thy hands to It for help--for it Rolls impotently on as Thou or I.

[Ingsoc]

Cassius Dio lists the appearence of a comet as one of the omens which forthhold Agrippa's death

 

"The death of Agrippa, far from being merely a private loss to his own household, was at any rate such a public loss to all the Romans that portents occurred on this occasion in such numbers as are wont to happen to them before the greatest calamities. Owls kept flitting about the city, and lightning struck the house on the Alban Mount where the consuls lodge during the sacred rites. The star called the comet hung for several days over the city and was finally dissolved into flashes resembling torches. Many buildings in the city were destroyed by fire, among them the hut of Romulus, which was set ablaze by crows which dropped upon it burning meat from some altar." (Dio, 54.29)

 

The comet that Dio write of is most likely the Halley's Comet.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Cassius Dio lists the appearence of a comet as one of the omens which forthhold Agrippa's death

 

"The death of Agrippa, far from being merely a private loss to his own household, was at any rate such a public loss to all the Romans that portents occurred on this occasion in such numbers as are wont to happen to them before the greatest calamities. Owls kept flitting about the city, and lightning struck the house on the Alban Mount where the consuls lodge during the sacred rites. The star called the comet hung for several days over the city and was finally dissolved into flashes resembling torches. Many buildings in the city were destroyed by fire, among them the hut of Romulus, which was set ablaze by crows which dropped upon it burning meat from some altar." (Dio, 54.29)

 

The comet that Dio write of is most likely the Halley's Comet.

Quite probable indeed, altough as Cassius Dio told, the comet was actually seen after Agrippa's death, which is consistent with the known Chronology. Here's a list of the apparitions of Halley's Comet:

1P/−239 K1 (25 May 240 BC)

1P/−163 U1 (12 November 164 BC)

1P/−86 Q1 (6 August 87 BC)

1P/−11 Q1 (10 October 12 BC)

1P/66 B1 (25 January 66 AD)

1P/141 F1 (22 March 141)

1P/218 H1 (17 May 218)

1P/295 J1 (20 April 295)

1P/374 E1 (16 February 374)

1P/451 L1 (28 June 451)

1P/530 Q1 (27 September 530)

1P/607 H1 (15 March 607)

1P/684 R1 (2 October 684)

1P/760 K1 (20 May 760)

1P/837 F1 (28 February 837)

1P/912 J1 (18 July 912)

1P/989 N1 (5 September 989)

1P/1066 G1 (20 March 1066)

1P/1145 G1 (18 April 1145)

1P/1222 R1 (28 September 1222)

1P/1301 R1 (25 October 1301)

1P/1378 S1 (10 November 1378)

1P/1456 K1 (9 June 1456)

1P/1531 P1 (26 August 1531)

1P/1607 S1 (27 October 1607)

1P/1682 Q1 (15 September 1682)

1P/1758 Y1, 1758 I (25 December 1758) [2]

1P/1835 P1, 1835 III (16 November 1835)

1P/1909 R1, 1910 II, 1909c (20 April 1910)

1P/1982 U1, 1986 III, 1982i (9 February 1986)

Next perihelion predicted 28 July 2061

 

Agrippa died on March, 12 BC (DCCXLII AUC).

[Faustus]

Cassius Dio lists the appearence of a comet as one of the omens which forthhold Agrippa's death

 

"The death of Agrippa, far from being merely a private loss to his own household, was at any rate such a public loss to all the Romans that portents occurred on this occasion in such numbers as are wont to happen to them before the greatest calamities. Owls kept flitting about the city, and lightning struck the house on the Alban Mount where the consuls lodge during the sacred rites. The star called the comet hung for several days over the city and was finally dissolved into flashes resembling torches. Many buildings in the city were destroyed by fire, among them the hut of Romulus, which was set ablaze by crows which dropped upon it burning meat from some altar." (Dio, 54.29)

 

The comet that Dio write of is most likely the Halley's Comet.

 

Salve Ingsoc, and thanks for bringing that possibility up.

 

What year was that and which Agrippa are we talking about? The apparitions of Halley's should've been 56/57 bc, 19 ad, 94/95 ad but I only get those dates by going back in 75.625 year increments, which don't fit Asclepiades list very closely. It always seems to me that a lot is made of Comets (Coma/hair/hairy?) but could something else be described with the same word? A burst of meteor storms or something else associated with a comet? The passing of Comets are relatively unremarkable events, as they change slowly in the sky from day to day.

 

The circumstances often seem exagerated to me, but then a very close passing comet could be completely different from what we are accustomed to seeing. Some debris breaking loose from the main body of the comet, for instance when inbound, could get into the way of earth when outbound. A comet which is not much more than a a dirty snowball could possibly create some unusual affects, but are those the kinds of effects that could cause fires (which were attributed to crows dropping burning meat) I don't personally think so, but it might be imprudent to rule anything out for the sake of argument. Some unusual combinations of meteoritical events are possible, but a public ignorant of the possible, often sees the impossible.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Faustus

[ASCLEPIADES]

Cassius Dio lists the appearence of a comet as one of the omens which forthhold Agrippa's death

 

"The death of Agrippa, far from being merely a private loss to his own household, was at any rate such a public loss to all the Romans that portents occurred on this occasion in such numbers as are wont to happen to them before the greatest calamities. Owls kept flitting about the city, and lightning struck the house on the Alban Mount where the consuls lodge during the sacred rites. The star called the comet hung for several days over the city and was finally dissolved into flashes resembling torches. Many buildings in the city were destroyed by fire, among them the hut of Romulus, which was set ablaze by crows which dropped upon it burning meat from some altar." (Dio, 54.29)

 

The comet that Dio write of is most likely the Halley's Comet.

 

Salve Ingsoc, and thanks for bringing that possibility up.

 

What year was that and which Agrippa are we talking about? The apparitions of Halley's should've been 56/57 bc, 19 ad, 94/95 ad but I only get those dates by going back in 75.625 year increments, which don't fit Asclepiades list very closely. It always seems to me that a lot is made of Comets (Coma/hair/hairy?) but could something else be described with the same word? A burst of meteor storms or something else associated with a comet? The passing of Comets are relatively unremarkable events, as they change slowly in the sky from day to day.

 

The circumstances often seem exagerated to me, but then a very close passing comet could be completely different from what we are accustomed to seeing. Some debris breaking loose from the main body of the comet, for instance when inbound, could get into the way of earth when outbound. A comet which is not much more than a a dirty snowball could possibly create some unusual affects, but are those the kinds of effects that could cause fires (which were attributed to crows dropping burning meat) I don't personally think so, but it might be imprudent to rule anything out for the sake of argument. Some unusual combinations of meteoritical events are possible, but a public ignorant of the possible, often sees the impossible.

This is the Chinese description:

 

"11 (12 BC): The Chinese text Han shu, which was written around AD 100, reports this "sparkling star" was first detected in the morning sky on -11 August 26. The comet was then in "Tung-Ching", which is a group of stars in the constellation Gemini, and was "treading on Wu-Chu-Hou", which is another group of stars in Gemini. The date and location indicate a morning observation, and a likely precise date of August 25.8 (Universal Time). Following discovery the comet attained its maximum solar elongation of 83

[Ingsoc]

Salve Ingsoc, and thanks for bringing that possibility up.

 

What year was that and which Agrippa are we talking about?

 

Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa who died in 12 BC, the same year that the Halley's Comet was seen (see ASCLEPIADES post above)

[Augustus Caesar]

Good day to you all... after a lapse in health and typing ability I rejoin this debate...

 

NN... I used to own both a 3" refractor and 4.5" reflector many years ago when they used to cost the same as a planet!!! I now use only my own eyes and binoculars. My main field of interest in astronomy is meteors and their associated phenomena. So that explains that one...

 

Caldrail... my apologies mate! I didn't mean to send you cowering off into a corner rubbing your wounded limbs! I stand by what I say however and I am sure others will agree with me here. Anyway... I think enough said on that topic. I don't wish you to go for revenge around a corner when we may meet on future UK meets so I offer a handshake to a fellow Roman buddy and maybe we can share a good drink when we next meet and not have a bout of fistycuffs where one of us may meet his untimely end . That would be most sad as a good drinking session would be wasted!!

 

Anyway... I forward greetings to all fellow amateur astronomers on these humble forums and may we all enjoy the fruits of our favourite hobbies for many years to come.

[Ingsoc]

Here come Gaius Plinius Secundus Maioris, Naturalis Historia, Libri II, Ch. XXIII:

 

"Rome is the only place in the whole world where there is a temple dedicated to a comet; it was thought by the late Emperor Augustus to be auspicious to him, from its appearing during the games which he was celebrating in honour of Venus Genetrix (Pliny confused the games), not long after the death of his father C

[Faustus]

Objects in the sky have almost always been interpreted as omens. The ancient Chinese would sometimes associate comets and asterioids with dragons in the sky. In the Dark ages they were interpreted as heralding misfortune - the attack on Lindisfarne by Vikings in 793 AD was preceeded by meteroites or a comet. The same with the events before the Battle of Hastings in 1066.

 

The Romans were no different. There are many descriptions of objects filling the sky and heralding portents. Whether these can be seen as meteorites is questionable. If anything many of these sky sightings seem to have been cooked up to go with a famous event. Here are a few examples:

 

393 A.D. Strange lights were seen in the sky in the days of the Emperor Theodosius. On a sudden, a bright globe appeared at midnight. It shone brilliantly near the day star (planet, Venus), about the circle of the Zodiac. This globe shone little less brilliantly than the planet, and little by little, a great number of other glowing orbs drew near the first globe. The spectacle was like a swarm of bees flying around the bee-keeper, and the light of these orbs was as if they were dashing violently against each other. Soon, they blended together into one awful flame, and bodied forth to the eye as a horrible two-edged sword. The strange globe which was first seen now appeared like the pommel to a handle, and all the little orbs, fused with the first, shone as brilliantly as the first globe.

 

216 B.C. Things like ships were seen in the sky over Italy... At Arpi (180 Roman miles, east of Rome, in Apulia) a round shield was seen in the sky. At Capua, the sky was all on fire, and one saw figures like ships...

 

99 B.C. When C. Murius and L. Valerius were consuls, in Tarquinia, there fell in different places.... a thing like a flaming torch, and it came suddenly from the sky. Towards sunset, a round object like a globe, or round or circular shield took its path in the sky, from west to east.

 

Many imaginative people have seen these as being descriptions of ancient UFO sightings, although its more likely that these have been made up by the Roman authors. The Augurs might have interpreted any meteorlogical events like these. After all, they did interpret the flight of birds, why not the falling stars?

 

October 30, 2007

 

[Faustus]

October 30, 2007

 

[Horatius]

Then there is this intriguing account of the origin of the Ancile," a bronze buckler fell from heaven, which came into the hands of Numa, and a wonderful account of it was given by the king, which he learned from Egeria and the Muses. The buckler came, he said, for the salvation of the city, and must be carefully preserved by making eleven others of like fashion, size, and shape, in order that the resemblance between them might make it difficult for a thief to distinguish the one that fell from heaven." http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roma...s/Numa*.html#13 , The Ancilia really did exist,maybe the first one really was made from an iron meteorite?

[Faustus]

This Evening's Occultation

 

While binoculars are helpful in observing an occultation, it is a naked eye phenomenon for those with sharp vision. I don

Edited April 8, 2008 by Faustus