Klingan Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 I received a photo that a friend of mine took during his recent visit to Germany. From our very basic knowledge in german we believe it's a silver mask embellish with gold. It's been awarded to German warriors after battles and (?) been used in Roman army parades (triumphs?). Could anyone please help me confirm if this is a correct translation and if it is I'd be very interested in anything else that anyone know about this (those) masks and their use. I've never heard that the roman army used anything like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 Roman cavalry did adopt face mask/helmets, often known as the 'sports' model because of its slimmer design. A silver/gold mask/helmet isn't something I'd expect a trooper to use on campaign, so I'd guess it was indeed for ceremonial use, or possibly even with religious purposes in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladict Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 The Valkhof Museum in Nijmegen (Netherlands) has a number of these masks in its collection, made of iron with a silver layer on top. In fact, they're having an exhibition on it right now, until November. Roman cavalry helmetsGallery 2 June - 18 November 2007 Museum Het Valkhof possesses a large number of unique iron cavalry helmets from the 1st century A.D. In the summer of 2006 the Archaeology Bureau of the city council found another mask from a cavalry helmet at the St. Josefhof excavation site. Together with the restoration department of the Rheinische Landesmuseum in Bonn, Museum Het Valkhof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryaxis Hecatee Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 Well the parade face masks theory is still disputed since some of those face masks were found in the Teutebord Wald on the place were Varus' forces fell. Thus they could have even been used in battle, partly to protect and partly to make enemies afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 I received a photo that a friend of mine took during his recent visit to Germany. From our very basic knowledge in german we believe it's a silver mask embellish with gold. It's been awarded to German warriors after battles and (?) been used in Roman army parades (triumphs?). Could anyone please help me confirm if this is a correct translation and if it is I'd be very interested in anything else that anyone know about this (those) masks and their use. I've never heard that the roman army used anything like this. Salve, K! As far as I understand, I believe the bottom text says something like: German: "Diese R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecimusCaesar Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 The Germans did sometimes make use of captured Roman armour and weapons after battle. It reminds me of an illustration from Newark's 'The Barbarians' which showed a victorius German cavalryman decked in Roman parade armour (with mask) duelling against another German adversary. I would therefore think that captured armour and masks would have been used by the Germans. Whether they produced masks themselves in imitation of the Romans, I cannot be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 (edited) Salve! BTW, there must had been quite a risky exposition to lead and other heavy metals during the metalwork of this baby. Anyway, imported Roman wines would probably have been even riskier. Good luck! Edited August 5, 2007 by ASCLEPIADES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladict Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 (edited) Went to see the little exposition I posted about a few days ago, as I happened to be in town. I can post pictures of the masks and the accompanying information (in Dutch and German) if you like. Edited August 9, 2007 by Maladict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 I could definitely see a mask such as this being used to inspire fear in the enemy. Quite effective I would imagine!! Since they were found on the battlefield, it's likely that they were occasionally used in battle, at least. However I've got to wonder how anyone could stand to fight in them? The one with the open face would be far more practical for battle as it allows for easy breathing, but they still must be very uncomfortable (but then again, I may be mistaken on that point. I've never fought in one!). That said they do seem as though they could provide a good deal of protection. The "full face" variety I'd be willing to bet were strictly ceremonial. Obviously breathing and eyesight would be greatly restricted, as would speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecimusCaesar Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 The full face masks were sometimes worn by Roman soldiers in battle. They might have been used by standard bearers, and almost certainly by cavalry. The Cataphracts of the Later Roman Empire certainly wore full face masks in battle, and these were later copied by barbarian tribes, such as the helmet found at Sutton Hoo. These face masks are usually associated with the Hippika Gymnasia, the cavalry sports that were popular with Roman soldiers. These sports would usually involve cavalrymen throwing javelins at their opponents. The javelins were not sharp, so that the soldiers would have less chance of hurting each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 The full face masks were sometimes worn by Roman soldiers in battle. They might have been used by standard bearers, and almost certainly by cavalry. The Cataphracts of the Later Roman Empire certainly wore full face masks in battle, and these were later copied by barbarian tribes, such as the helmet found at Sutton Hoo. Come to think of it I do remember seeing this somewhere. I stand corrected. But I still can't figure out how it wouldn't be nearly impossible to breath, or see. I wonder how many deaths resulted from eyesight being blocked by the mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecimusCaesar Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [quote name='Lost_Warrior' date='Aug 9 2007, 06:30 PM' post='68863' Come to think of it I do remember seeing this somewhere. I stand corrected. But I still can't figure out how it wouldn't be nearly impossible to breath, or see. I wonder how many deaths resulted from eyesight being blocked by the mask. That's true. It would have been very difficult to see with the face masks on. Knights during the Middle Ages suffered the same problem. I remember visting a museum and getting a chance to waer a replica helmet of a Crusader Knight of the 12th century (a Great Helm type). It was very heavy and it was next to impossible to see anything, especially objects coming from the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 That's true. It would have been very difficult to see with the face masks on. Knights during the Middle Ages suffered the same problem. I remember visting a museum and getting a chance to waer a replica helmet of a Crusader Knight of the 12th century (a Great Helm type). It was very heavy and it was next to impossible to see anything, especially objects coming from the side. It must've been a huge problem for those fighting. It might not have been as big a problem for some units, but for infantry it would be suicide (probably part of the reason they weren't worn by infantry!). I can also imagine breathing would be difficult (I feel like I'm suffocating just thinking about it!!) but then, that I suppose is something you could get used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 The Militaria and assorted impedimentiae are not my sphere , so I tread carefully lest I offend ..is the original post not reminiscent of later period Nordic headgear? Also do we not have the suggestion of masks, in cavalry exercises and sports as indicators of the riders "team"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) Masks were worn by roman cavalrymen - there's a good one retrieved from Varus' debacle - and the eyeholes are a reasonable width plus it must be said quite close to the face, thus the view restriction probably isn't as great as the crusader helmet mentioned above. View from a helmet is very important. Notice that the roman infantry helmets were developed to avoid screening the senses. The face was open, and the ears uncovered. The romans thought this necessary to make sure their soldiers could see and hear what was going on around them. It must have worked because they persisted with this design for hundreds of years given a few changes in shape and style. I'm not sure if the roman 'sports' cavalry helmet was actually covered with silver or gold, thats a very expensive helmet and not something I'd want to have lying around on campaign. Also, I have to say that roman cavalry were very proactive in combat. Whereas more recent riders behaved with something approaching beserk abandon, roman cavalry were taught a very different mindest, involving complex manoevers, feints, and quick advances and retreats. For this reason, observation is very important, particularly since many of these manoevers were performed in close order and therefore require co-operation to remain in formation. It therefore follows that eyesight was not badly restricted though its impossible to deny that such protection comes at a price. Is it purely function though? Is there some religious element, or is the frozen expression of a face mask intended to inspire fear in the enemy, much the same way as samurai did? Edited August 10, 2007 by caldrail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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