Celts and Hindu's?

[Lost_Warrior]

I just bought a new Celtic CD and I found this weird statement on the back of the case: "The Ancient Celts, like the Hindu's with whom they were so closely connected, believed in the transmigration of the never dying soul."

 

Now, ignoring the questionable "transmigration" bit (I had thought the Celts had no concept of reincarnation) what about the Celts and Hindu's being connected to each other? I had thought they didn't even know of each others' existence, let alone that they were "closely connected".

[Ursus]

The Vedic precursors of The Hindus were Indo-European cousins to the Celts. They are distantly related, not closely related.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, guys!

 

I would think this is a common concept among many unrelated cultures (vg, some american "indians"); you don't have to establish a link (which may or may not have existed) between Celtics and Hindu (true indians) to explain it.

 

Cheers and good luck!

[docoflove1974]

The Vedic precursors of The Hindus were Indo-European cousins to the Celts. They are distantly related, not closely related.

 

Not only that, but some linguists have proposed 'migrations' in Indo-Europeans. According to one book (Matasović, Ranko. 2004. Gender in Indo-European. Heidelberg: Universit

[Rameses the Great]

Different cultures, different peoples. They try to compare Serbs to these peoples to.

[DecimusCaesar]

Peter Berresford Ellis in his numerous books about the Celts, has written much on the subject of the similarity between the continental Celts and the cultures of India. He sees similarities between the two people's myths, their statues - with Celtic deities sitting in similar poses to the Hindu deities, even their Cosmology- with Celtic thoughts on the universe following those found in the Vedic cycles.

 

As Doc has pointed out, there are also linguistic similarities:

 

Sanskrit: Arya (freeman)

Old Irish: Aire (Noble)

Sanskrit: Naib (good)

Old Irish: Noeib (holy)

Sanskrit: Badhira (deaf)

Old Irish Bodhar (deaf)

Sanskrit: Minda (physical defect)

Old Irish: Menda (a stammerer)

 

and so on.

 

It is an interesting idea, although I think that many of the so called similarities cited by Ellis are questionable - eg - those between "Celtic" music and dance and those of the Hindus.

[docoflove1974]

Peter Berresford Ellis in his numerous books about the Celts, has written much on the subject of the similarity between the continental Celts and the cultures of India. He sees similarities between the two people's myths, their statues - with Celtic deities sitting in similar poses to the Hindu deities, even their Cosmology- with Celtic thoughts on the universe following those found in the Vedic cycles.

 

As Doc has pointed out, there are also linguistic similarities:

 

Sanskrit: Arya (freeman)

Old Irish: Aire (Noble)

Sanskrit: Naib (good)

Old Irish: Noeib (holy)

Sanskrit: Badhira (deaf)

Old Irish Bodhar (deaf)

Sanskrit: Minda (physical defect)

Old Irish: Menda (a stammerer)

 

and so on.

 

It is an interesting idea, although I think that many of the so called similarities cited by Ellis are questionable - eg - those between "Celtic" music and dance and those of the Hindus.

 

As mentioned earlier, there are linguistic similarities, because they are both Indo-European languages. There are similarities of the same varieties across the older Indo-European sister languages. Certainly there are similarities across the cultures in some respects. But a *close* relationship? That's a bit of a stretch, by any imagination.

[Ursus]

The New Age business deliberately distorts history. The Celts are everything from the survivors of Atlantis to brothers of the Hindus, depending on the spiritual needs of the clientele. It's designed to sell books, CDs and other items. The Celts of their marketing are seldom the Celts of history.

 

As for Ellis ... meh. I reviewed one of his books for this site. I think he is a modern polemicist with an agenda to turn the Celts into Europe's great Uber-race. He's at the opposite end of the New Age - the nationalist.

[caldrail]

A simple concept like the 'transmigration of the soul' covers many old religions, including christianity. The nature of the transmigration is therefore more important and may well be very different indeed - I've not had time to look deeper into this - perhaps someone else knows more? Its rather like the author has taken out the detail until he can establish a similarity, whethr one existed in th first place or not. Lets remember that a primary reason for religion existing in the first place is fear of death. The concept that a man simply ceases to be is a bit disturbing for many of us - we generally like a cosier image of the universe around us where something of our former life survives - which is the main selling point of organised religion. Sign up and pay your dues, in return for which you get a ticket to everlasting paradise. It all comes across as a bit dubious (it often is) because the average person has a very poor understanding of spirituality, something exploited by quick-witted orators since human beings invented religion.

 

Celts and Hindu's speak languages with common roots however, thats already established and reflcts the expansion and diversification of primitive human tribes into new area's in the search of resources and survival. Its therefore possible that there is indeed a common root in religious thought, though I would point out that many religions and mythological beliefs do not survive for long periods before a stronger culture imposes its own belief structures.

[desidude]

I am an Indian (and hindu) and a few years back I heard some music on Television which seemed just like Indian music except for the fact that the female voice was singing in English and the she was obviously European. So I was very surprised and researched a little bit more and found that that the music was Celtic. Upon further research I came up with numerous articles describing commonality between Hindu and Celtic cultures which I found quite fascinating.

 

My current reasoning as someone alluded to earlier is that there is some commonality between Celtic and Hindu culture in the sense that both are directly or indirectly derived from a Vedic or Proto-Vedic culture and religion. The difference is that while Vedic culture developed and grew in India into what is now referred to as Hinduism, in other parts (Western Asia, Central Asia/Europe) it declined mainly due to growth of Roman and Islamic Empires. With these conquest came new religions which basically lead to almost complete elimination of Vedic religions outside of India.

 

Celtic culture is almost unique in the sense is that it was able to survive Roman onslaught on the northern peripheries of Roman Empire and today it provides unique insights into the original Vedic culture and religion of People who inhabit Europe/Central Asia/Western Asia/India.

 

Interesting discussion in any case.

[Ursus]

a few years back I heard some music on Television which seemed just like Indian music except for the fact that the female voice was singing in English and the she was obviously European.

 

 

 

But was what you heard really traditional Celtic music, or was it New Age music masquerading as Celtic? The New Age borrows a lot from Hinduism and Eastern mysticism, and then throws in some Celtic gloss to make it marketable to people of European background.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve!

 

I found the page Hindu and Celtic Culture Are One on the web.

 

The first problem with this website is that it is not strictly historical; in fact, it runs by the auto-denomination of "Esotheric Theological Seminary" (seriously).

 

As far as I have seen, I think it's a good example of that kind of stuff Ursus was warning us about.

[Ursus]

Hmmm.

 

My whole problem is this: that the Vedics were an Indo-European offshoot related to the Celts is not disputed. But Hindu culture/religion evolved considerably since its Vedic origins, and therefore comparisons between Hindus and Ancient Celts is not as enlightening as its proponents would have us believe.

 

I'd just like to say for the record I'm glad the New Age industry decided to rape the Celts rather than Greco-Roman culture. Imagine if it had been otherwise: everyday we would have people showing up on the forum asking us if the Romans were peaceful, eco-matriarchal types who were concerned with karma and positive energies.

[docoflove1974]

Is it much better than saying that the Celts (or Germanic tribes) were nothing but blood-thirsty barbarians who preferred to be barely clothed and smeared with dirt? It's all rubbish in my opinion...being overly positive or overly negative about a group of people doesn't exactly promote the group fairly. Either way, it's a pile of manure.

[desidude]

My whole problem is this: that the Vedics were an Indo-European offshoot related to the Celts is not disputed.

 

But Hindu culture/religion evolved considerably since its Vedic origins, and therefore comparisons between Hindus and Ancient Celts is not as enlightening as its proponents would have us believe.

 

I would agree that modern day comparison between Celtic and Hindu cultures do not make much sense. However, what is interesting here, at least in my perspective, is that Celtic and Hindu culture may both be offshoots (but not distant cousins) of a common Vedic or proto-Vedic culture. Also, given the similarities between Ancient Celtic and Hindu/Vedic religious practices, I tend to think that one can reach the same conclusion even after ignoring any musical commonality.

 

If it was just the Celts, one could even ignore that. However, recent historical findings that ancient Mitanni Kings of Western Asia had Sanskrit sounding names and named Indra, Varuna, etc (current Hindu / Vedic gods) as there own gods also shows some commonality to Vedic or proto-vedic culture. So it becomes difficult to ignore both Celts and Mitanni Kings. Now if you consider the fact that Ancient Iranian culture has much in common with Vedic culture, a pattern starts to emerge leading to the conclusion that Vedic culture was the original culture of the region bounded by Europe, Western Asia, Iran, and India or of people who migrated into these regions. As far as I know this is not a well known or accepted notion yet.

 

This is enlightening in several ways: 1) it points out, as someone mentioned earlier, that Ancient Celts were not barbarians (probably a myth propagated by Romans in any case), 2) If Ancient Celtic practices were based on Vedic practices, then combined with finding about Mitaani kings of Western Asia and ancient Iranian culture, it leads to conclusion that there was a fairly advanced culture/religion in existence in a Europe/Western Asia/India region before Roman/Islamic conquests (maybe this is already well established), 3) and finally the possibility that some parts of (or all of) ancient Hindu Vedic text of "Rig Veda" may have been composed outside of India (can lead to lot of controversy in Indian/Hindu context).

 

In any case, I think more historical evidence would be useful to either prove or disprove this.