Marsellus and Marsella

[Octavia]

Does anyone know about Marsellus and Marsella, the children of Octavia mminor by her first marriage? I know only that Marsellus was Julia's first husband, but that he died of something. Marsellus, I have no idea of anything. Can anyone help?

[Ingsoc]

Marcella was merried to Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, divorced after her brother death so Agrippa could merry Julia. Octavia then merried her to her step brother Iullus Antonius.

[Octavia]

Thanks for informing me about Marsella. Do you know if her and Agrippa or her other husband had children?

[Ingsoc]

She had three children, a daughter with Agrippa,Vipsania Marcella, merried Publius Quinctilius Varus. from Iulius she had a son Lucius Antonius and a daughter Julia Antonia.

[The Augusta]

Octavia actually had two Marcellae - Major and Minor. Marcella Major was the one who married Agrippa and then Iulus Antony. Marcella Minor married a Lepidus first, then a Valerius Messalla.

 

Ingsoc - I would be interested to know the source for the daughter of one of these Marcellae marrying Varus, for I had always thought it was the younger Marcella whose daughter married Varus - not the daughter of the elder Marcella and Agrippa. Although Suetonius tells us that Agrippa had 'fathered children on her', our main primary sources do not name these children. I do not doubt that you are right, but I am anxious to know the source, so that I may correct my family tree of the JCs.

[Ingsoc]

Jona Lendering mention that Varus was merried to a daughter of Agrippa (thought I don't know his source) http://www.livius.org/q/quinctilius/varus.html

 

Also there is a possiblty that D. Haterius Agrippa was the grandson of Agrippa and Marcella as Tacitus mention (Annals 2.51.2) "A contest then arose about the election of a praetor in the room of Vipstanus Gallus, whom death had removed. Germanicus and Drusus (for they were still at Rome) supported Haterius Agrippa, a relative of Germanicus."

 

There also a certain P. Vipsanius Agrippa who appear on coins of Corinth during the time of Caligula and may have been desecended of Agrippa and Marcella.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, guys and Ladies!

 

Vipsania Marcella Agrippina or Marcellina (born 27 BC) was the only daughter to Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa from his second wife Claudia Marcella Major.

She was the first grandchild to Octavia Minor and first great-niece to Roman Emperor Augustus.

About 14 BC, she married Publius Quinctilius Varus.

Tacitus hints that she did not die in childbirth or of natural causes. The date of her death is uncertain.

 

Good luck!

[Ingsoc]

I asked a friend of mine and he said that in Augustus' funeral oration for Agrippa which was published in 1970 (hence Reinhold's biography of Agrippa which was published in 1933 make no refrences to it) he called Varus the son in law of Agrippa which mean he was merried to an unknown daughter of Agrippa.

 

Now because Cornelius Nepos suggest that Vipsania Agrippina was the only child of Agrippa and Caecilia Attica (Atticus, 19) and we know none of Julia daughters were old enought to merry in 12 BC the only option that is left is Marcella.

[Ingsoc]

It's seem that Reinhold think that she could also be the daughter of Attica

 

Marcus Agrippa's Son-in-Law P. Quinctilius Varus

[ASCLEPIADES]

Now because Cornelius Nepos suggest that Vipsania Agrippina was the only child of Agrippa and Caecilia Attica (Atticus, 19) and we know none of Julia daughters were old enought to merry in 12 BC the only option that is left is Marcella.

Salve, guys! Here's a translation of that chapter of C. Nepos' Atticus:

 

"XIX. Since fortune has chosen that we should outlive him, we will now proceed with the sequel, and will show our readers by example, as far as we can, that (as we have intimated above) "it is in general a man's manners that bring him his fortune."290 For Atticus, though content in the equestrian rank in which he was born, became united by marriage with the emperor Julius's son, whose friendship he had previously obtained by nothing else but his elegant mode of living, by which he had charmed also other eminent men in the state, of equal birth, but of lower fortune; for such prosperity attended Caesar, that fortune gave him everything that she had previously bestowed upon any one, and secured for him what no citizen of Rome had ever been able to attain. Atticus had a granddaughter, the daughter of Agrippa, to whom he had married his daughter in her maidenhood; and Caesar betrothed her, when she was scarcely a year old, to Tiberius Claudius Nero, son of Drusilla, and step-son to himself; an alliance which established their friendship, and rendered their intercourse more frequent."

 

Emphasis is mine. Regretfully, I don't find this passage clarifying at all.

 

Methinks there is simply not enough information to determine who was PQ Varus' mother in law; however, most authors seems to favor Agrippa's 2nd wife.

 

Cheers & good luck!

[The Augusta]

Atticus had a granddaughter, the daughter of Agrippa, to whom he had married his daughter in her maidenhood; and Caesar betrothed her, when she was scarcely a year old, to Tiberius Claudius Nero, son of Drusilla, and step-son to himself; an alliance which established their friendship, and rendered their intercourse more frequent."

 

Emphasis is mine. Regretfully, I don't find this passage clarifying at all.

 

Methinks there is simply not enough information to determine who was PQ Varus' mother in law; however, most authors seems to favor Agrippa's 2nd wife.

 

Cheers & good luck!

 

Your emphasis, however, does clarify that the grand-daughter of Atticus was Vipsania who married Tiberius and bore Drusus the younger. I would agree that if Varus married a daughter of Agrippa, she had to be the fruit of the second marriage to Marcella Major. You state that Tacitus mentions this connection, Asclepiades. Could you point me to the passage. I have to say it is something that has totally passed me by. However, if Varus was connected to Augustus in this way it may well explain why he was appointed in the first place.

 

And a question for Ingsoc. Is there a text online of Augustus' funeral oration for Agrippa published in 1970? This, too, has passed me by! If it's out there somewhere, I'd love to have a copy.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

ETA: (Sorry, Ingsoc - I have just read the scrap from your link to the JSTOR article that explains that this laudatio only exists in a fragment - therefore, no need to answer the question)

Edited August 2, 2007 by The Augusta

[Ingsoc]

And a question for Ingsoc. Is there a text online of Augustus' funeral oration for Agrippa published in 1970? This, too, has passed me by! If it's out there somewhere, I'd love to have a copy.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

ETA: (Sorry, Ingsoc - I have just read the scrap from your link to the JSTOR article that explains that this laudatio only exists in a fragment - therefore, no need to answer the question)

 

The fragment is lomger than just themention of Varus, it's about ten lines and mostly mention Agrippa powers, an English translation can be found at Robert K. Sherk, The Roman Empire: Augustus to Hadrian, pp. 24-25 (PM me if you having trouble finding the book).

[Ingsoc]

And a question for Ingsoc. Is there a text online of Augustus' funeral oration for Agrippa published in 1970? This, too, has passed me by! If it's out there somewhere, I'd love to have a copy.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

ETA: (Sorry, Ingsoc - I have just read the scrap from your link to the JSTOR article that explains that this laudatio only exists in a fragment - therefore, no need to answer the question)

 

The fragment is lomger than just themention of Varus, it's about ten lines and mostly mention Agrippa powers, an English translation can be found at Robert K. Sherk, The Roman Empire: Augustus to Hadrian, pp. 24-25 (PM me if you having trouble finding the book).

 

Sorry to bump the thread, but I manage to find an online translation of the text: http://www.umich.edu/~classics/programs/cl...yl/db/H003.html thought I prefer Sherk translation.