Turkey

[Rameses the Great]

ANKARA, Turkey - Turkey

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, RG!

 

"Turkey PM vows to preserve secularism

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA Associated Press Writer

 

ANKARA, Turkey -- Turkey's prime minister pledged to work toward national unity and fight terrorism after the Islamic-rooted ruling party won parliamentary elections by a wide margin.Although the ruling party's success has been touted as proof that Islam and democracy can coexist, the new government is likely to face persistent tension over the role of Islam in society.

State-run Anatolia news agency was projecting that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Justice and Development Party would win 340 of the 550 seats, as votes in all but six of more than 158,000 ballot boxes across the country were counted.

Erdogan, a devout Muslim, pledged to safeguard the country's secular traditions and do whatever the government deems necessary to fight separatist Kurdish rebels.

"We will never make concessions over the values of people, the basic principles of our republic. This is our promise. We will embrace Turkey as a whole without discriminating," he said at a rally in the capital, Ankara.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso congratulated Erdogan's victory.

"This comes at an important moment for the people of Turkey as the country moves forward with political and economic reforms," Barroso said in a statement.

The EU chief said that Erdogan "has given his personal commitment to the sustained movement towards" the EU.

The 27-nation bloc, while divided over whether Turkey should one day join the club, continues to spur Ankara to continue reforms to keep on track its membership bid.

Ruling party supporters clapped, danced and waved flags depicting the party symbol, a light bulb, outside the party's office in Istanbul. In Ankara, hundreds whooped as they watched election results on a big TV screen set up outside party headquarters.

"We are very happy," university student Reyhan Aksoy said. "God willing, great days await us."

The election was called early to defuse a showdown with the military-backed, secular establishment, which contended that Erdogan and his allies were plotting to scrap Turkey's secular traditions despite their openness to the West.

Erdogan raised concern with his efforts as prime minister to make adultery a crime and appoint former Islamists to key positions. Critics also were troubled by his calls for the lifting of restrictions on the wearing of Islamic headscarves.

The government will have to decide how to deal with violence by Kurdish rebels seeking autonomy. NATO member Turkey is considering whether to stage an offensive into northern Iraq against separatist Kurdish rebels who rest, train and resupply at bases there.

Erdogan has warned the incursion could happen if security talks with Iraq and the U.S. fail. He has invited Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to visit Turkey. "In our struggle against separatist terrorists, we are determined to take every step at the right time," Erdogan said of the conflict with the Kurds.

The commander of Iraq-based Kurdish rebels told The Associated Press in an interview that he believes Turkey will quickly follow the elections with a long-anticipated offensive against his remote mountain bases.

Murat Karayilan, the leader of the separatist Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, warned that his fighters were prepared for battle, but denied Ankara's charges that his group was using Iraqi soil to launch attacks against Turkish forces across the border. He was speaking on Friday.

Turkey has made big strides after the economic and political chaos of past decades, but some feared the vote could deepen divisions in the mostly Muslim nation of 70 million.

The country has an emboldened class of devout Muslims, led by a ruling party willing to pursue Western-style reforms to strengthen the economy and join the European Union. Under Erdogan inflation has dropped, foreign investment has increased, and the economy has grown at an annual average of 7 percent.

The success of the ruling party signaled continuity in economic reforms and in Turkey's troubled efforts to join the European Union.

"We will press ahead with reforms and the economic development that we have been following so far," Erdogan said in his victory speech.

One of Parliament's first jobs will be to elect a president. The post is largely ceremonial, but the incumbent has the power to veto legislative bills and government appointments.

In May, Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul abandoned his presidential bid after opponents said Gul's election would remove the last obstacle to an Islamic takeover of government and the military - instigator of past coups - threatened to intervene to safeguard secularism.

Though the ruling party emerged from the vote with a smaller majority than in 2002 elections, its officials expressed surprise with how well they did given the current atmosphere of tension with the secularists.

Two secular parties, the Republican People's Party and the Nationalist Action Party, won 112 seats and 71 seats, respectively, Anatolia said.

Politicians backed by a Kurdish party that seeks more rights for the ethnic minority returned to Turkey's Parliament for the first time in more than a decade. The Democratic Society Party, or DTP, won 24 seats in the 550-seat Parliament, according to CNN-Turk television.

The party's candidates ran as independents to circumvent a 10 percent vote threshold required to win representation in Parliament. The Kurdish politicians were expected to regroup under the party banner when the new Parliament convenes.

According to project results, 50 female lawmakers are expected to enter the Parliament, bringing the share of woman lawmakers in the Parliament to an all-time high of almost 10 percent, the Milliyet newspaper said.

Fourteen parties and 700 independent candidates competed for a total of 42.5 million eligible voters. Voting is compulsory in Turkey, though fines for failing to vote are rarely imposed, and 2002 election turnout was 79 percent.

Turnout was more than 80 percent, and voting was largely peaceful, election officials said.

 

Associated Press writers Selcan Hacaoglu and Suzan Fraser in Ankara, and C. Onur Ant in Istanbul, contributed to this report."

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

So the new PM vows he would preserve secularism...my gluteus. Ever wonder why the Turkish army is still threatening to overthrow the new term.

[Klingan]

I must admit I'm confused with this situation, maybe someone can enlighten me. They have been in power for 5 years so far and all changes they've made (more or less) have have been secular in nature. They've moved closer to the EU (Even if the opinion in Turkey is shifting) and they've strengthened womens rights.

 

Why does everyone believe that they're going to go for the religious berserk line now?

[Divi Filius]

Why does everyone believe that they're going to go for the religious berserk line now?

 

It think it has a lot to do with fact the centrist stance on many subjects. They have been most willing to discuss the Cyprus issue, they favor EU etc., not hard-line enough to please the nationalists.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, guys!

 

Methinks we have two outstanding points in this report.

 

First of all, it appears that the Turkish people's desires have been stated even beyond the Turkish Army best opinion.

Turkey has never had a high democratic profile (you could go ask Armenians, Kurds, Greeks, Cypriots and Turks themselves). Any point up in their democratic thermometer should be good news for everyone. The EU may be an exception, as they would have few arguments for the rejection of the Turkish candidacy.

 

The other point is the Islamic integration of the Turkish parliament. Seeing it as bad news for the World (non-Islamic World, I suppose), would be probably premature, as it would appear to equate "Islamic" to "terrorism", a conception that the Islamic terrorists would certainly applaud.

 

Only time will tell (not so much time, I hope).

[Kosmo]

I must admit I'm confused with this situation, maybe someone can enlighten me. They have been in power for 5 years so far and all changes they've made (more or less) have have been secular in nature. They've moved closer to the EU (Even if the opinion in Turkey is shifting) and they've strengthened womens rights.

 

Why does everyone believe that they're going to go for the religious berserk line now?

 

First of all they are mistrusted because they are coming from outside the kemalist elite that ruled since the 20's. They are also from the poorer interior regions not the prosperous west ones like before.

The secularist fear that they will use their greater grip on power to end the secularism. And it is highly possible to use democratic means to do that. Think about Algeria or Hamas. Pushing the army out of politics and bringing a greater democracy to Turkey were recquired by EU but also suited their goals of taking the power from the old elite. It's no telling what will they do if their power goes unchecked.

 

Turkey joining the EU was good for Bush Middle East Master Plan (and for his mistreated puddel too) but know with Blair gone and with Sarkozy and Merkel taking center stage there is no chance of Turkey joining the EU. Foremost, not because they are muslims, but because there are 70-80 million of turks.

Probably, we will see in some years some mainly muslim countries joining the EU (Albania, Bosnia) but not Turkey.

 

Someday this fact will became obvious and internal and external pressure for democracy will be less relevant giving turkish politicians a great freedom of choice in their plans. This could mean an islamization of the country. But, it can also mean a great thing:

The first liberal democracy in a muslim country. If this is possible Turkey it's the best candidate for the spot with loads of people with an open mind.

I'll not shed a tear for the old elite. They are authoritarian, nationalistic, xenophobic, paternalistic and militaristic. They carried for a huge period of time a protectionist economic policy that failed miserably in the 90's while this new leaders brought unprecedented properity. In the last 4 years the national product doubled.

They also created a nationalist propaganda machine with a personality cult for Kemal Ataturk and many stalinist features including turning history in propaganda.

This extreme nationalist propaganda makes many ordinary turks fanatics and this means that dialogue with the greeks it's highly unlikely.

This political change will mean also an identity change with less emphasis on nationalism.

 

So, I believe that it's much more likely for Egypt to became radical islamic then Turkey.

[Viggen]

Erdogan

[M. Porcius Cato]

I agree with Kosmo. Actions speak louder than words, and I don't see any evidence of moving toward Sharia. If this party were really pro-Sharia, they wouldn't be working so hard for inclusion in the EU.

[Kosmo]

Turks are not Middle Eastener, if you have ever seen Istambuls youth nightlife you might be in for a surprise, it is pretty spectacular, glamourus and so very not islamic....

 

The nightlife district, Taksim, it's really amazing. Few great cities have something similar and none the spectacular views. I remeber being in an open air night club on the shore of Bosphorus. The sea was reflecting the countless lights of the city, you could see high above the great span of a bridge over the sea and on the other side of The Straits the bright lights of Dombahce Palace while a very good oriental house music filled the air.

I'll always remember that but also the rich had-to-toe vailed women that were guests at the hotel we stayed in Istanbul, the agresivity in the air of a male dominated crowded street or the poor mudbrick villages of Anatolia.

Turkey it's a great and contrasting country that it's again at a crossroad trying to integrate most of her people in a new political order.

[Ursus]

I'm honestly more worried about fanatical Islamic emigrants in my country right now as opposed to what happens in Turkey (or Egypt, or Iran). If a country wants to subject itself to a Medieval theocracy, it may do so all it wants as far as I am concerned. Its when people from those areas immigrate to Western Countries and expect our countries to play by the same rules that we have problems. When I see Muslims in America or UK with signs such as "Democracy go to hell!", I think its time to consider deportation. Democracy should be under no obligation to respect individuals or groups who don't respect democracy.

 

 

It also must be said there are certain Christian groups in America that would establish their Christian sharia if given half a chance. They can be deported to the Holy Land too as far as I am concerned.

[Kosmo]

It also must be said there are certain Christian groups in America that would establish their Christian sharia if given half a chance. They can be deported to the Holy Land too as far as I am concerned.

 

Poland it's seriously under threat from christian catholic fundamentalism interwined with xenophobia. As someone noted shortly after the birth of the modern polish state the only thing Poland exports it's antisemitism. I'll add fanatical catholicism. After they put the European Constitutional at risk and delayed european reform for 7 years many people think that Poland might be the first ever country to be rejected from the EU.

A cautious opinion in IHT

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/26/news/letter.php

[Ursus]

Poland it's seriously under threat from christian catholic fundamentalism interwined with xenophobia. As someone noted shortly after the birth of the modern polish state the only thing Poland exports it's antisemitism. I'll add fanatical catholicism. After they put the European Constitutional at risk and delayed european reform for 7 years many people think that Poland might be the first ever country to be rejected from the EU.

A cautious opinion in IHT

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/26/news/letter.php

 

 

It's hard to believe that Nietzche proclaimed the death of god in the last century, or that people who take Gene Roddenberry science fiction too seriously still stick their heads in the sand and proclaim it.

 

In any event, I was always skeptical of the EU's "advance to the Urals at all costs" mentality....

[Divi Filius]

Religion is the opiate of the masses... I think this couldnt be more true for countries of eastern Europe. I think this conservatism is nothing more then a byproduct of problems faced by a given society as it pushes towards the west. With no strong history of democracy and liberalism, much of eastern Europe escapes communist totalitarianism only to drift into corrupt democracies where the very minor gains are quickly sucked up by the new ruling elite. Discouraged, the masses herd towards the conservatives who claim to be defending the "good old values" lost in the new society, now rife with abortion, prostitution, crime, drugs etc. etc.

Edited July 27, 2007 by Divi Filius

[Rameses the Great]

Erdogan