Kosmo Posted July 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 From PP excelent work it's easy to see that, to a large extent, the conquests in the North and West were more direct and rapid then the gradual increase of roman authority in the East and South. It's true that N and W were late conquests and Rome herself was changed, including the reasons of foreign policy. Claudius brought the end of lots of states in the East! ASCLEPIADES - Many times Rome did not behaved like an agressor because they did not tried to annex imediately the regions they conquered. Between Roman military/political intervention and the establishement of direct rule it's a period of time too long to consider them both part of a plan. What was the Senate decision? "we reorganize the region and in a 100 years we move in". The reasons of roman intervention did not required direct and imediate conquest, but changing the situation acording to roman desire and that did include a lot of defensive strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 By the way, if anyone has any suggested updates or alterations to the list, please do mention it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) By the way, if anyone has any suggested updates or alterations to the list, please do mention it here. Salve, PP! You already observed that the information about Mesopotamia, Osrhoene and Armenia is still lacking. In addition to that, my only question is if there weren't any client kingdoms in the West (at least in Britannia). Edited July 12, 2007 by ASCLEPIADES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) Salve, K! Thank you for your kind observations. I think that we totally agree. Edited July 15, 2007 by ASCLEPIADES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 By the way, if anyone has any suggested updates or alterations to the list, please do mention it here. Was Roman rule in Asia Minor continuous after 133? I thought Romans lost control of it before Sulla and Pompey finally brought back under Roman rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 By the way, if anyone has any suggested updates or alterations to the list, please do mention it here. Was Roman rule in Asia Minor continuous after 133? I thought Romans lost control of it before Sulla and Pompey finally brought back under Roman rule. You are correct... it was not all of Asia Minor, but rather just Pergamum. In fact, most of Pergamum was distributed to various other clients to govern on Rome's behalf shortly after it was willed. Using Asia Minor as the "province" in question is difficult because as a whole it was made up of several smaller kingdoms. As you suggest, it was not completely under Roman control until after Sulla, Lucullus and Pompey, but the date of first influence is still appropriate as 133 BC. I'll add a similar explanation to the 'notes' section in the chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingsoc Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 By the way, if anyone has any suggested updates or alterations to the list, please do mention it here. Yes, you wrote that the client kings in Judea ruled until 70es, this is wrong as the last Herodian king, Agrippa II died around 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 By the way, if anyone has any suggested updates or alterations to the list, please do mention it here. Here are 3 of the most notorious client kingdoms of the Romans in Britain: Atrebates, later Regnenses or Regni Client status: 55 BC-70s AD Location: Roughly modern-day Hampshire and West Sussex (capitals now Silchester and Chichester) After his defeat of the Belgic Atrebates on the Continent, Julius Caesar had employed their king Commius in his unsuccessful invasion of Britain in 55 BC. Caesar left Commius as a client (i.e., nominally independent) king in Gaul, giving him additionally rule over the Morini. Commius maintained his loyalty through the events of 54 BC, but later began to conspire against the Romans, and fled to Britain, where he established himself as a king. He ruled through roughly 20 BC, although there may have been a second king named Commius. Commius was succeeded by three of his sons. First, Tincomarus, from 25/20 BC to 7/8 AD. He was more sympathetic to Rome than his father had been, and based on numismatic evidence styled himself rex, implying client kingship status under the Empire. He was expelled in 7/8 AD, seeking refuge with the Romans. After Tincomarus, the emperor Augustus chose to recognize his brother, Eppillus, as the next client king. After ruling jointly with Tincomarus, he apparently became sole ruler c.7 AD, and may have been the one who drove out Tincomarus. Eppillus was succeeded by another of Commius' sons, Verica, who reigned from Silchester. During his rule, the Atrebates were under pressure from the Catuvellauni to the east. After fifteen years of war, Caratacus of the Catuvellauni conquered the whole kingdom, and Verica was driven out of Britain in roughly 40 AD. As a Roman ally, it has been argued that the nominal goal of the Roman conquest of 43 AD to restore Verica to power. Following the Roman conquest, Cogidubnus, who was at some point given the Roman names Tiberius Claudius, ruled what had been the lands of the Atrebates. His people were now referred to as Regni or Regnenses (see the Regnenses article for discussion of the name). Cogidubnus was notably loyal to the Romans (see, e.g., Tacitus), and after his death, probably in the 70s AD, the kingdom became part of the Roman province of Britannia. Iceni Client status: c.47-60 AD Location: Roughly modern-day Norfolk Prasutagus was possibly installed as king after the revolt of the Iceni in 47 AD. The Iceni were allowed quasi-independence, with the expectation that the kingdom would revert to Roman control on Prasutagus' death. The king instead tried to leave control of the region, at least in part, to his children. When he died in 60 AD, the Romans seized control, prompting a second Iceni rebellion under Prasutagus' wife Boudica. Following suppression of Boudica's revolt, the Romans simply administered the territory as part of Britannia. Votadini Client status: c.140s-c.410 AD Location: Southeast Scotland and northeast England, including modern-day Northumberland The Votadini were a Brythonic people who lived under the direct rule of Rome Hadrian's Wall and the Antonine Wall from 138-162 AD. When the Romans withdrew behind Hadrian's Wall in 164 AD, they left the Votadini as a client kingdom, a buffer zone against the Picts in the north. They maintained client status until the Romans pulled out of Britain in 410 AD. Through a series of linguistic changes, the Votadini became known as the Gododdin, and maintained a kingdom until their defeat by the Angles c.600 AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Thanks A, that's even more detail than we need for the purposes of the chart. As most should be aware, in presenting any provincial makeup of the empire, there were any number of local clients that remained in some position of influence throughout the provinces. My purpose was to simply identify the basic incorporation of the territory into the greater whole. The border of that particular territory and/or it's governing authority may have been in flux for any number of years after that initial date, but it's the foundation of the process is what's being presented. Now if you wanted to begin the compilation of a list of historical client kingdoms (and monarchs), that could be one interesting (and horrifically time-consuming) project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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