LarusArgentatus Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Hello forum visitors, I'm currently in the process of writing an essay about the role of animals in Roman religion. One of the things I will do, is explaining why many gods had their 'own' animals. However, I can't find a thing on this subject on the internet. All I see is lists of gods with their respective animals, without any explanation given as to why a certain animal belongs to a certain god. So I would appreciate it very much if you'd want to tell me why the Romans associated animals with their gods, and why (to pick a few) Jupiter had an eagle, why Neptune had a horse and why Juno had a peacock. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! Salve, Larus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Instead of doing a search on Google, try doing a search on your library's catalogue of BOOKS. They deliver text at amazing speeds without even needing an internet connection, feature high quality images, and--best of all--contain scholarly references and are edited for accuracy. All operating systems work with BOOKS, and thanks to public libraries, they're even open source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarusArgentatus Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Instead of doing a search on Google, try doing a search on your library's catalogue of BOOKS. They deliver text at amazing speeds without even needing an internet connection, feature high quality images, and--best of all--contain scholarly references and are edited for accuracy. All operating systems work with BOOKS, and thanks to public libraries, they're even open source. You don't (want to) know my local library No joking I'll try to find something there. The reason I posted here is that I figured that some of you guys might know a thing or two about this subject, because if you post regularly on forums like this, you must know a lot about Roman history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Then try a local college or university library. Many are free to enter, or offer guest passes. You'll find databases with thousands of references that will help you immensely...as well as experts on finding the information in the library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I would appreciate it very much if you'd want to tell me why the Romans associated animals with their gods, and why (to pick a few) Jupiter had an eagle, why Neptune had a horse and why Juno had a peacock. My guess is that the literal answer to your question is actually pretty lame. The Romans associated their Neptune with horses because Neptune plays the same role in the Roman pantheon as does Poseidon in the Greek pantheon and the Greeks associated Poseidon with horses. The non-literal answer to your question is more interesting. The interesting question is, Why was the Poseidon/Neptune role associated with horses? Because the myths say that Neptune created horses (see Apollodorus, the Homeric Hymns, Ovid, etc). Why would anyone believe that a god of water would create an animal that clearly can't live in water? I guess the hint is in the way the ancient authors talk about the horse, which is bound up in the imagery of rushing, breaking waters, which sort of resemble a herd of galloping horses (see especially Ovid on this). "If x looks like y, then y created x" is the hallmark of what is called "mythopoetic reasoning". If you apply this principle consistently, you can reverse-engineer all kinds of creation myths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Augusta Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The interesting question is, Why was the Poseidon/Neptune role associated with horses? Because the myths say that Neptune created horses (see Apollodorus, the Homeric Hymns, Ovid, etc). Why would anyone believe that a god of water would create an animal that clearly can't live in water? I guess the hint is in the way the ancient authors talk about the horse, which is bound up in the imagery of rushing, breaking waters, which sort of resemble a herd of galloping horses (see especially Ovid on this). "If x looks like y, then y created x" is the hallmark of what is called "mythopoetic reasoning". If you apply this principle consistently, you can reverse-engineer all kinds of creation myths. Poseidon was also the god of earthquakes among the earlier Greeks. I don't know if this had any bearing on his horse creation - but I just thought I would point out that he wasn't always associated simply with the watery realms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Poseidon was also the god of earthquakes among the earlier Greeks. I don't know if this had any bearing on his horse creation - but I just thought I would point out that he wasn't always associated simply with the watery realms. But didn't the Greeks believe that earthquakes started under the water? I don't know where the fault lines are in that part of the world, but it wouldn't surprise me, given the mountainous nature of the geography, that there are plenty of fault lines all over. So when an earthquake struck, the waves rise up, and people would think that they came from the ocean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPIADES Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Poseidon was also the god of earthquakes among the earlier Greeks. I don't know if this had any bearing on his horse creation - but I just thought I would point out that he wasn't always associated simply with the watery realms. But didn't the Greeks believe that earthquakes started under the water? I don't know where the fault lines are in that part of the world, but it wouldn't surprise me, given the mountainous nature of the geography, that there are plenty of fault lines all over. So when an earthquake struck, the waves rise up, and people would think that they came from the ocean. It has been said that what the sea, horses, earthquakes and even seizures have in common for the Poseidon's myth is the constant, powerful and uncontrollable movement. The association between deities and animals goes far beyond classical mythology; even Christianity has the fish, the dove and the lamb, among others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarusArgentatus Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Thank you very much for your help guys, I can definately use the Neptune / horse stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Augusta Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Poseidon was also the god of earthquakes among the earlier Greeks. I don't know if this had any bearing on his horse creation - but I just thought I would point out that he wasn't always associated simply with the watery realms. But didn't the Greeks believe that earthquakes started under the water? I don't know where the fault lines are in that part of the world, but it wouldn't surprise me, given the mountainous nature of the geography, that there are plenty of fault lines all over. So when an earthquake struck, the waves rise up, and people would think that they came from the ocean. Sounds very plausible indeed, Doc - as does Asclepiades' explanation above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) Instead of doing a search on Google, try doing a search on your library's catalogue of BOOKS. They deliver text at amazing speeds without even needing an internet connection, feature high quality images, and--best of all--contain scholarly references and are edited for accuracy. All operating systems work with BOOKS, and thanks to public libraries, they're even open source. Thank you, MPC, for that lovely tribute to public libraries. You certainly warmed the heart of this public library director. LarusArgentatus, I was sorry to read that your own public library may not have the materials you're looking for. I don't know where you live, but public libraries do have interlibrary loan services and can get you materials from other collections. Some public libraries (such as my own) even provide patrons access to databases on the university level, such as JSTOR. -- Nephele Edited July 5, 2007 by Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Thank you, MPC, for that lovely tribute to public libraries. You certainly warmed the heart of this public library director. Some of my fondest memories from childhood were those of being left alone in the library. Even when on vacation, I'd finagle my way to the local library to see what it had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarusArgentatus Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 LarusArgentatus, I was sorry to read that your own public library may not have the materials you're looking for. I don't know where you live, but public libraries do have interlibrary loan services and can get you materials from other collections. Some public libraries (such as my own) even provide patrons access to databases on the university level, such as JSTOR. I happen to live in a rural Dutch town, and there's not much to it's library They do have some kind of network with other libraries in the area, but I don't expect too much from that. I might visit the library in Rotterdam (come on you must know that city ), and see what they have there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I might visit the library in Rotterdam (come on you must know that city But of course! You must be descended from the ancient Batavi, spoken of by Tacitus! Good luck in your quest! -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Psychologically: oceans, earthquakes and wild horses all have a unity in the power of untamed nature, which Poseidon wields. I'm not a fan of the psychology school, however. Possibly my fellow legate Pantagathus could give you more insight on Poseidon. To answer the broader question: remember that Greco-Roman religion is not a coherent, monolithic entity. It is a collection of cults for each deity. To study why this and that go with such and such god, you have to research the cult and myth of said god. Some answers are obvious: the eagle is Zeus' bird because Zeus is the king of gods and the eagle is the most majestic of birds. Zeus furthermore turns into an eagle to snatch up Ganymede. Some answers are less obvious. The ram is associated with Hermes. Why? Because Hermes was to the Arcadians a god of flocks and fertility, and the ram was an animal indicative of pastoral fertility. Walter Burkert addresses all the major Olympian gods in his Greek Religion. Were I to suggest one book to start, it would be that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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