Pertinax Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 I was watching the late Jack Hargreaves speaking about axe blades. Might I ask the Saxon and Medieval specialists what in their opinion is the most effective combat shape for a battleaxe ? Is the beaked axe merely a working tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 (edited) I may be biased due to prior re-enactment experience, but I personally view the English 'Huscarl' axe as being the ultimate refinement of the Battle Axe. It was derived from the from the viking battle axe, and subsequently enlarged and hafted for two - hand use by the time of Cnut. The slightly drooped position of the blade with respect to the lie of the haft results in most pressure being brought upon the dead centre of the blade, given that the axe swing describes a virtual semi-circle. See here: By the time of Stephen and Matilda, a different shape was becoming fashionable, which was the crescent shaped axe. I suspect that the shape may have been derived from examples seen and obtained by the crusaders in outremer, and in subsequent centuries it acquired various pointy appendages such as spikes opposite the blade, and atop it. Taken 20 years ago, the following picture of me and some of my boys looking nervously from one of King Stephen's motte and baileys towards a host of barbarous baronial rebels shows both types in concurrent use. In tests, my saracen - influenced crescent axe was far less effective than the long hafted axe used to great effect by my right-hand man, even allowing for the longer haft on the English type. Despite the chicken on his shield, the rather posh looking Frenchie to my left acquitted himself heroically. On this occasion King Stephen's forces lost, and Osprey never did use the photo you now see, despite the characteristic cliched pose. As an aside, Our society (Regia Anglorum - still thriving now!) interpreted the 'square' at the neck of an Anglo - Norman Knight's mail hauberk as an unfastened aventail, or neck protector. You see them here, both fastened and unfastened. The Bayeux tapestry shows the 'square' being visible only on figures not involved in combat, hence the hypothesis. This is now the standard interpretation of the precise nature of the 'Chest Square' shown on Normans and Saxon huscarls on the Bayeux Tapestry. However, the late Professor R. Allen Brown suggested this interpretation several months before us, so to him goes the credit. Such is the academic world! EDIT: yes, the chain mail, weapons and helmets are real. Edited May 29, 2007 by Northern Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Apart from the Martial Excellence of your photo ( you are all "moffte fearsomme and warlykee" )and top of the range haute coture, I have to pose the question what then is the best way to use the axe? Is it swung in a butterfly arc as a Huscarl advances? I assume the target area is the collar bone (ideally) or the right wrist of the opponent? Add on spikes are I assume for prising open tricky suits of armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Apart from the Martial Excellence of your photo ( you are all "moffte fearsomme and warlykee" )and top of the range haute coture, I have to pose the question what then is the best way to use the axe? Is it swung in a butterfly arc as a Huscarl advances? I assume the target area is the collar bone (ideally) or the right wrist of the opponent? Add on spikes are I assume for prising open tricky suits of armour. If using the two - handed English one, the best mode was to swing from upper right to lower left. This would, as you say, at the least snap your opponant's collar bone and in optimum conditions drive through to the centre of the chest, severing the aorta as it goes. Whilst simultaneously keeping your left side protected by the shoulder - slung shield. The crescent axe was wielded in a 90 - degree arc through the centre of the head, with the shield pulled up close in front. For some strange reason the crescent axe superceded the more efective huscarl axe, and the pointy appendages were indeed added as plate armour was added to one's enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 ( you are all "moffte fearsomme and warlykee" ) Many thanks, Pertinax. We even had the haircuts! This aided us greatly when combating somewhat unauthentic 'viking' societies comprising violent bikers and punks. Despite being good middle class boys (albeit rugby players and cops ) they assumed we were real nutcases, and thus avoided us like the plague at the 'Hastings' re-enactments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 So the cut of the Japanese longsword and the Huscarls axe are similar, (and a balanced cutting blow can strike profoundly) there again human anatomy hasnt varied for quite a while. I see now clearly the origin of the saying that "William had brought an army of priests" to England. How did you keep the mail rust free? Olive oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 (edited) So the cut of the Japanese longsword and the Huscarls axe are similar, (and a balanced cutting blow can strike profoundly) there again human anatomy hasnt varied for quite a while. I see now clearly the origin of the saying that "William had brought an army of priests" to England.How did you keep the mail rust free? Olive oil? We did indeed use olive oil! We also cheated by using nickel - plated split spring steel washers. I believe even now, this is considered an acceptable deviation from the authentic - and it is much stronger than the original Iron riveted stuff! This last photo is of Muslim and Christian warriors together as brothers. Shortly after this photo was taken, my Lebanese friend Cat (real name, I believe, Daoud Ibn Abdallah) went back to the Middle East at the height of the Civil War in Lebanon. I have not heard from him since. 'From Acre to the Sea, AD 1099' Edited May 29, 2007 by Northern Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 A fascinating topic this one. While my interests in Roman History are wide and varied I do not profess to have too many in this period sadly. Once I found that the Castle Keep in Newcastle Upon Tyne, built by the Normans, had been built using stone from the Roman fort of Pons Aelius I went off these guys!!! Oh...by the way NN... love the hair-do's!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Oh...by the way NN... love the hair-do's!!! Many thanks, Augustus - perhaps I should adopt this hairstyle again! I apologise by the way for going attrociously off topic in places - thats what happens when you send posts whilst enjoying a glass or two of fine Calvados! Back to topic, what is the 'beaked' axe you refer to, Pertinax? I am familiar with the 'bearded' axe, which appeared thus: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Is this what Pertinax refers to? I have come across this before but this is by no means a subject I know anything of... The page I got it from only has this image and no text!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Oh...by the way NN... love the hair-do's!!! Many thanks, Augustus - perhaps I should adopt this hairstyle again! I apologise by the way for going attrociously off topic in places - thats what happens when you send posts whilst enjoying a glass or two of fine Calvados! Back to topic, what is the 'beaked' axe you refer to, Pertinax? I am familiar with the 'bearded' axe, which appeared thus: The very thing-so would this be agricultural or military or all purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 The very thing-so would this be agricultural or military or all purpose? Some have been found in a military context. I believe the Danes called this type a 'Skeggox'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 The very thing-so would this be agricultural or military or all purpose? Some have been found in a military context. I believe the Danes called this type a 'Skeggox'. This I believe means "bearded" ? Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 This I believe means "bearded" ? Does that make sense? It does - Apparantly 'skegg' means beard in old norse. The example I have drawn is a late example from about 1200; the 'beard' on the viking ones was smaller, and they also made smaller headed ones for one - handed use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I'm confused!! So what is the axe I pasted above then? Is that 'bearded' or 'beaked'??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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