Boudicca

[georgious]

I suspect that many among the members of this erstwhile forum are familiar with the historico-legendary personage of Bouddica(Boaddicea) queen of the Iceni, whose legend was incorporated in 19nth century British Imperial mythology and whose chariotiered statue stands outside the modern Houses of Parliament.I had read about her in British manuals of national history and I have seen a series on woman warriors,narrated by MS. lawless-the actress who plays GINA the warrior queen, which has a vignete devoted to her. I think her story has been made to a movie and also a series of historical novels have her as a heroine.Does anybody know by which ancient sources her story has been reconstructed?

[Primus Pilus]

Does anybody know by which ancient sources her story has been reconstructed?

 

There is actually considerable detail in the story as related by two major sources.

Tacitus, The Annals - book 14; ch. 29-37

 

Cassius Dio, The Histories - book 62; ch. 1 - 12

 

Suetonius however, in Life of Nero, barely finds it worth mentioning...

To all the disasters and abuses thus caused by the prince there were added certain accidents of fortune; a plague which in a single autumn entered thirty thousand deaths in the accounts of Libitina; a disaster in Britain, where two important towns were sacked and great numbers of citizens and allies were butchered;

[georgious]

Does anybody know by which ancient sources her story has been reconstructed?

 

There is actually considerable detail in the story as related by two major sources.

Tacitus, The Annals - book 14; ch. 29-37

 

Cassius Dio, The Histories - book 62; ch. 1 - 12

 

Suetonius however, in Life of Nero, barely finds it worth mentioning...

To all the disasters and abuses thus caused by the prince there were added certain accidents of fortune; a plague which in a single autumn entered thirty thousand deaths in the accounts of Libitina; a disaster in Britain, where two important towns were sacked and great numbers of citizens and allies were butchered;

 

Thank you, Primus Pilus

[georgious]

Does anybody know by which ancient sources her story has been reconstructed?

 

There is actually considerable detail in the story as related by two major sources.

Tacitus, The Annals - book 14; ch. 29-37

 

Cassius Dio, The Histories - book 62; ch. 1 - 12

 

Suetonius however, in Life of Nero, barely finds it worth mentioning...

To all the disasters and abuses thus caused by the prince there were added certain accidents of fortune; a plague which in a single autumn entered thirty thousand deaths in the accounts of Libitina; a disaster in Britain, where two important towns were sacked and great numbers of citizens and allies were butchered;

 

Thank you, Primus Pilus

Apart from the most interesting sources-I admit that Dio Cassius is more informative-although he gives the impression that the final battle was equivocal while Tacitus states that the Britons were routed despite their vastly superior numbers-which is the version that the documentary I saw followed, I would like to ask since when Boudicea has been selected to play the role of the ancestor of modern Britons and her story was incorporated as a foundation myth in British imperial mythology.

[WotWotius]

Does anybody know by which ancient sources her story has been reconstructed?

 

There is actually considerable detail in the story as related by two major sources.

Tacitus, The Annals - book 14; ch. 29-37

 

Cassius Dio, The Histories - book 62; ch. 1 - 12

 

Suetonius however, in Life of Nero, barely finds it worth mentioning...

To all the disasters and abuses thus caused by the prince there were added certain accidents of fortune; a plague which in a single autumn entered thirty thousand deaths in the accounts of Libitina; a disaster in Britain, where two important towns were sacked and great numbers of citizens and allies were butchered;

 

It is also mentioned in Tacitus' Agricola, 14-16:

 

'14. Aulus Plautius was the first governor of consular rank, and Ostorius Scapula the next. Both were famous soldiers, and by degrees the nearest portions of Britain were brought into the condition of a province, and a colony of veterans was also introduced. Some of the states were given to king Cogidumnus, who lived down to our day a most faithful ally. So was maintained the ancient and long-recognised practice of the Roman people, which seeks to secure among the instruments of dominion even kings themselves. Soon after, Didius Gallus consolidated the conquests of his predecessors, and advanced a very few positions into parts more remote, to gain the credit of having enlarged the sphere of government. Didius was succeeded by Veranius, who died within the year. Then Suetonius Paullinus enjoyed success for two years; he subdued several tribes and strengthened our military posts. Thus encouraged, he made an attempt on the island of Mona, as a place from which the rebels drew reinforcements; but in doing this he left his rear open to attack.

 

15. Relieved from apprehension by the legate's absence, the Britons dwelt much among themselves on the miseries of subjection, compared their wrongs, and exaggerated them in the discussion. "All we get by patience," they said, "is that heavier demands are exacted from us, as from men who will readily submit. A single king once ruled us; now two are set over us; a legate to tyrannise over our lives, a procurator to tyrannise over our property. Their quarrels and their harmony are alike ruinous to their subjects. The centurions of the one, the slaves of the other, combine violence with insult. Nothing is now safe from their avarice, nothing from their lust. In war it is the strong who plunders; now, it is for the most part by cowards and poltroons that our homes are rifled, our children torn from us, the conscription enforced, as though it were for our country alone that we could not die. For, after all, what a mere handful of soldiers has crossed over, if we Britons look at our own numbers. Germany did thus shake off the yoke, and yet its defence was a river, not the ocean. With us, fatherland, wives, parents, are the motives to war; with them, only greed and profligacy. They will surely fly, as did the now deified Julius, if once we emulate the valour of our sires. Let us not be panic-stricken at the result of one or two engagements. The miserable have more fury and greater resolution. Now even the gods are beginning to pity us, for they are keeping away the Roman general, and detaining his army far from us in another island. We have already taken the hardest step; we are deliberating. And indeed, in all such designs, to dare is less perilous than to be detected."

 

16. Rousing each other by this and like language, under the leadership of Boudicea, a woman of kingly descent (for they admit no distinction of sex in their royal successions), they all rose in arms. They fell upon our troops, which were scattered on garrison duty, stormed the forts, and burst into the colony itself, the head-quarters, as they thought, of tyranny. In their rage and their triumph, they spared no variety of a barbarian's cruelty. Had not Paullinus on hearing of the outbreak in the province rendered prompt succour, Britain would have been lost. By one successful engagement, he brought it back to its former obedience, though many, troubled by the conscious guilt of rebellion and by particular dread of the legate, still clung to their arms. Excellent as he was in other respects, his policy to the conquered was arrogant, and exhibited the cruelty of one who was avenging private wrongs. Accordingly Petronius Turpilianus was sent out to initiate a milder rule. A stranger to the enemy's misdeeds and so more accessible to their penitence, he put an end to old troubles, and, attempting nothing more, handed the province over to Trebellius Maximus. Trebellius, who was somewhat indolent, and never ventured on a campaign, controlled the province by a certain courtesy in his administration. Even the barbarians now learnt to excuse many attractive vices, and the occurrence of the civil war gave a good pretext for inaction. But we were sorely troubled with mutiny, as troops habituated to service grew demoralised by idleness. Trebellius, who had escaped the soldiers' fury by flying and hiding himself, governed henceforth on sufferance, a disgraced and humbled man. It was a kind of bargain; the soldiers had their license, the general had his life; and so the mutiny cost no bloodshed. Nor did Vettius Bolanus, during the continuance of the civil wars, trouble Britain with discipline. There was the same inaction with respect to the enemy, and similar unruliness in the camp, only Bolanus, an upright man, whom no misdeeds made odious, had secured affection in default of the power of control.'

Edited May 13, 2007 by WotWotius

[georgious]

Does anybody know by which ancient sources her story has been reconstructed?

 

There is actually considerable detail in the story as related by two major sources.

Tacitus, The Annals - book 14; ch. 29-37

 

Cassius Dio, The Histories - book 62; ch. 1 - 12

 

Suetonius however, in Life of Nero, barely finds it worth mentioning...

To all the disasters and abuses thus caused by the prince there were added certain accidents of fortune; a plague which in a single autumn entered thirty thousand deaths in the accounts of Libitina; a disaster in Britain, where two important towns were sacked and great numbers of citizens and allies were butchered;

 

It is also mentioned in Tacitus' Agricola, 14-16:

 

'14. Aulus Plautius was the first governor of consular rank, and Ostorius Scapula the next. Both were famous soldiers, and by degrees the nearest portions of Britain were brought into the condition of a province, and a colony of veterans was also introduced. Some of the states were given to king Cogidumnus, who lived down to our day a most faithful ally. So was maintained the ancient and long-recognised practice of the Roman people, which seeks to secure among the instruments of dominion even kings themselves. Soon after, Didius Gallus consolidated the conquests of his predecessors, and advanced a very few positions into parts more remote, to gain the credit of having enlarged the sphere of government. Didius was succeeded by Veranius, who died within the year. Then Suetonius Paullinus enjoyed success for two years; he subdued several tribes and strengthened our military posts. Thus encouraged, he made an attempt on the island of Mona, as a place from which the rebels drew reinforcements; but in doing this he left his rear open to attack.

 

15. Relieved from apprehension by the legate's absence, the Britons dwelt much among themselves on the miseries of subjection, compared their wrongs, and exaggerated them in the discussion. "All we get by patience," they said, "is that heavier demands are exacted from us, as from men who will readily submit. A single king once ruled us; now two are set over us; a legate to tyrannise over our lives, a procurator to tyrannise over our property. Their quarrels and their harmony are alike ruinous to their subjects. The centurions of the one, the slaves of the other, combine violence with insult. Nothing is now safe from their avarice, nothing from their lust. In war it is the strong who plunders; now, it is for the most part by cowards and poltroons that our homes are rifled, our children torn from us, the conscription enforced, as though it were for our country alone that we could not die. For, after all, what a mere handful of soldiers has crossed over, if we Britons look at our own numbers. Germany did thus shake off the yoke, and yet its defence was a river, not the ocean. With us, fatherland, wives, parents, are the motives to war; with them, only greed and profligacy. They will surely fly, as did the now deified Julius, if once we emulate the valour of our sires. Let us not be panic-stricken at the result of one or two engagements. The miserable have more fury and greater resolution. Now even the gods are beginning to pity us, for they are keeping away the Roman general, and detaining his army far from us in another island. We have already taken the hardest step; we are deliberating. And indeed, in all such designs, to dare is less perilous than to be detected."

 

16. Rousing each other by this and like language, under the leadership of Boudicea, a woman of kingly descent (for they admit no distinction of sex in their royal successions), they all rose in arms. They fell upon our troops, which were scattered on garrison duty, stormed the forts, and burst into the colony itself, the head-quarters, as they thought, of tyranny. In their rage and their triumph, they spared no variety of a barbarian's cruelty. Had not Paullinus on hearing of the outbreak in the province rendered prompt succour, Britain would have been lost. By one successful engagement, he brought it back to its former obedience, though many, troubled by the conscious guilt of rebellion and by particular dread of the legate, still clung to their arms. Excellent as he was in other respects, his policy to the conquered was arrogant, and exhibited the cruelty of one who was avenging private wrongs. Accordingly Petronius Turpilianus was sent out to initiate a milder rule. A stranger to the enemy's misdeeds and so more accessible to their penitence, he put an end to old troubles, and, attempting nothing more, handed the province over to Trebellius Maximus. Trebellius, who was somewhat indolent, and never ventured on a campaign, controlled the province by a certain courtesy in his administration. Even the barbarians now learnt to excuse many attractive vices, and the occurrence of the civil war gave a good pretext for inaction. But we were sorely troubled with mutiny, as troops habituated to service grew demoralised by idleness. Trebellius, who had escaped the soldiers' fury by flying and hiding himself, governed henceforth on sufferance, a disgraced and humbled man. It was a kind of bargain; the soldiers had their license, the general had his life; and so the mutiny cost no bloodshed. Nor did Vettius Bolanus, during the continuance of the civil wars, trouble Britain with discipline. There was the same inaction with respect to the enemy, and similar unruliness in the camp, only Bolanus, an upright man, whom no misdeeds made odious, had secured affection in default of the power of control.'

A late thank you WotWotius

[DecimusCaesar]

Apart from the most interesting sources-I admit that Dio Cassius is more informative-although he gives the impression that the final battle was equivocal while Tacitus states that the Britons were routed despite their vastly superior numbers-which is the version that the documentary I saw followed, I would like to ask since when Boudicea has been selected to play the role of the ancestor of modern Britons and her story was incorporated as a foundation myth in British imperial mythology.

 

I think that Boudicca became associated with Queen Victoria, the ruler of the British Empire during the 19th century. Victoria was almost the 'modern' version of Boudicca in some Victorians eyes' and the Boudicca statue that can be seen in London was constructed in honour of Victoria. To the Victorians, Boudicca represented the most ancient form of British ideals such as freedom and the 'fight against oppression'. Ironically when the Boudicca statue was built the British ruled a quarter of the globe, and they imitated Boudicca's enemy - the Romans - in many ways.

[georgious]

Apart from the most interesting sources-I admit that Dio Cassius is more informative-although he gives the impression that the final battle was equivocal while Tacitus states that the Britons were routed despite their vastly superior numbers-which is the version that the documentary I saw followed, I would like to ask since when Boudicea has been selected to play the role of the ancestor of modern Britons and her story was incorporated as a foundation myth in British imperial mythology.

 

I think that Boudicca became associated with Queen Victoria, the ruler of the British Empire during the 19th century. Victoria was almost the 'modern' version of Boudicca in some Victorians eyes' and the Boudicca statue that can be seen in London was constructed in honour of Victoria. To the Victorians, Boudicca represented the most ancient form of British ideals such as freedom and the 'fight against oppression'. Ironically when the Boudicca statue was built the British ruled a quarter of the globe, and they imitated Boudicca's enemy - the Romans - in many ways.

Thank you-Boudicca's statue is outside the Houses of Parliament I think.The non-historical character of political propaganda is very common - in Greece Leonidas was used as a role-model during the formation of a national-state.19th century nationalism searched in the past to create foundation myths, as the Gauls and jEAN d' Arc for the French or even Vercicentorix who was made to a movie not a long time ago.

[DecimusCaesar]

Apart from the most interesting sources-I admit that Dio Cassius is more informative-although he gives the impression that the final battle was equivocal while Tacitus states that the Britons were routed despite their vastly superior numbers-which is the version that the documentary I saw followed, I would like to ask since when Boudicea has been selected to play the role of the ancestor of modern Britons and her story was incorporated as a foundation myth in British imperial mythology.

 

I think that Boudicca became associated with Queen Victoria, the ruler of the British Empire during the 19th century. Victoria was almost the 'modern' version of Boudicca in some Victorians eyes' and the Boudicca statue that can be seen in London was constructed in honour of Victoria. To the Victorians, Boudicca represented the most ancient form of British ideals such as freedom and the 'fight against oppression'. Ironically when the Boudicca statue was built the British ruled a quarter of the globe, and they imitated Boudicca's enemy - the Romans - in many ways.

Thank you-Boudicca's statue is outside the Houses of Parliament I think.The non-historical character of political propaganda is very common - in Greece Leonidas was used as a role-model during the formation of a national-state.19th century nationalism searched in the past to create foundation myths, as the Gauls and jEAN d' Arc for the French or even Vercicentorix who was made to a movie not a long time ago.

 

Yes that's true. Another example could be Arminius in Germany. The Germans built a massive statue of him during the nineteenth century as a symbol of German might, as well as to show that unlike their neighbours in other European countries, they were never conquered by the Romans.

 

An interesting side note on Boudicca is that her name, when translated into modern English means 'Victoria'. I'm not sure if Victoria was named after the ancient figure, but it might be a coincidence.

[The Augusta]

An interesting side note on Boudicca is that her name, when translated into modern English means 'Victoria'. I'm not sure if Victoria was named after the ancient figure, but it might be a coincidence.

 

Indeed, and I think this is the crux of the matter of that statue. Rather than her role as a 'champion against oppression', her role as 'bringer of victory' would have been emphasised during Victoria's rule, when Britain had 'conquered mighty nations'. Do we know the date of the statue? Did it, for instance, coincide with Victoria's designation as Regina Imperatrix? I can remember at primary school in the 60s learning about 'the warrior queen' who beat the Romans. There was never any emphasis at that stage of her being a champion of the oppressed. I do believe that has come later with our more modern sensibilities.

 

As to the question of whether Victoria was named in honour of Boudica - I wouldn't have thought this was a consideration at the time of her birth, when she was not actually designated as heir to the throne. But I suppose we'll never know.

[WotWotius]

The statue was made around 1856-1885, but it wasn

[The Augusta]

The statue was made around 1856-1885, but it wasn’t erected in its current position until 1902.

 

On another note, Mel Gibson is making a film about the Warrior Queen, in which Boudica, known as Boadicea throughout the film, is the champion of the oppressed. It seems that in Mel Gibson's own little fantasy world, the Romans are becoming the new English...

 

Interesting. So, feasibly it may well have been 1876 when Disraeli persuaded her about the RI designation?

 

As for Mel's film - one of the things I DIDN'T like about Manda Scott's Boudica series was her stance regarding the Roman oppressors, and her final author's note to the fourth book where she bemoaned the fact that Boudica lost her final battle. She actually mentioned something about a nation being destroyed! Presumably, then, according to Ms. Scott, we would have continued to evolve our tribal system and 'dream' our way through history like New Age hippies. So - Mel isn't the only one with fantasies. I can imagine he may well be using some of Scott's work in his film. (Thinking about it - there were parts of those books where Boudica was gathering her 'war force' in good old Braveheart fashion!)

 

ETA: Thanks for the link to that wonderful piece in the Guardian. And it answers the question of whether or not Victoria was named after Boudica. Clearly not.

Edited May 26, 2007 by The Augusta

[Ursus]

narrated by MS. lawless-the actress who plays GINA the warrior queen

 

 

Not that it really matters, but Lawless played Xena the Warrior Princess.

[Tribunicus Potestus]

The statue was made around 1856-1885, but it wasn

[GhostOfClayton]

Intersting to bring this comment from WotWotius back to life. It looks like the film never left Production Hell.

 

There was, however, this one. Has anyone seen it? is it any good?