Atia of the Julii-sacrifice

[georgious]

In one -the first?- of the episodes of Rome Season one, Atia of the julii,Caesar's niece participates in a certain ritual sacrifice where she baths in a bull's blood.Among the members of the Forum has any one seen this episode so that he can explain it's actual religious significance? I suspect Egyptian origin.

[Primus Pilus]

From this post by Violentilla...

 

Prudentius: The Taurobolion of Magna Mater

 

The high priestess who is to be consecrated is brought down under ground in a pit dug deep, marvellously adorned with a fillet, binding her festive temples with chaplets, her hair combed back under a golden crown, and wearing a silken toga caught up with Gabine girding. Over this they make a wooden floor with wide spaces, woven of planks with an open mesh; they then divide or bore the area and repeatedly pierce the wood with a pointed tool that it may appear full of small holes. Here a huge bull, fierce and shaggy in appearance, is led, bound with flowery garlands about its flanks, and with its horns sheathed---its forehead sparkles with gold, and the flash of metal plates colors its hair. Here, as is ordained, they pierce its breast with a sacred spear; the gaping wound emits a wave of hot blood, and the smoking river flows into the woven structure beneath it and surges wide. Then by the many paths of the thousand openings in the lattice the falling shower rains down a foul dew, which the priestess buried within catches, putting her head under all the drops. She throws back her face, she puts her cheeks in the way of the blood, she puts under it her ears and lips, she interposes her nostrils, she washes her very eyes with the fluid, nor does she even spare her throat but moistens her tongue, until she actually drinks the dark gore. Afterwards, the corpse, stiffening now that the blood has gone forth, is hauled off the lattice, and the priestess, horrible in appearance, comes forth, and shows her wet head, her hair heavy with blood, and her garments sodden with it. This woman, all hail and worship at a distance, because the ox's blood has washed her, and she is born again for eternity.

[georgious]

From this post by Violentilla...

 

Prudentius: The Taurobolion of Magna Mater

 

The high priestess who is to be consecrated is brought down under ground in a pit dug deep, marvellously adorned with a fillet, binding her festive temples with chaplets, her hair combed back under a golden crown, and wearing a silken toga caught up with Gabine girding. Over this they make a wooden floor with wide spaces, woven of planks with an open mesh; they then divide or bore the area and repeatedly pierce the wood with a pointed tool that it may appear full of small holes. Here a huge bull, fierce and shaggy in appearance, is led, bound with flowery garlands about its flanks, and with its horns sheathed---its forehead sparkles with gold, and the flash of metal plates colors its hair. Here, as is ordained, they pierce its breast with a sacred spear; the gaping wound emits a wave of hot blood, and the smoking river flows into the woven structure beneath it and surges wide. Then by the many paths of the thousand openings in the lattice the falling shower rains down a foul dew, which the priestess buried within catches, putting her head under all the drops. She throws back her face, she puts her cheeks in the way of the blood, she puts under it her ears and lips, she interposes her nostrils, she washes her very eyes with the fluid, nor does she even spare her throat but moistens her tongue, until she actually drinks the dark gore. Afterwards, the corpse, stiffening now that the blood has gone forth, is hauled off the lattice, and the priestess, horrible in appearance, comes forth, and shows her wet head, her hair heavy with blood, and her garments sodden with it. This woman, all hail and worship at a distance, because the ox's blood has washed her, and she is born again for eternity.

Thank you Primus Pilus, I also read the comments of Viollentila after the transalation of the ancient text. I must see again the scene and make a comparison.

[Primus Pilus]

We must give the folks at HBO/BBC credit. They certainly did their research and were quite faithful to realism in season 1.

[The Augusta]

We must give the folks at HBO/BBC credit. They certainly did their research and were quite faithful to realism in season 1.

 

But note Violentilla's original rider to her post - that the 'priestesses' of Magna Mater/Cybele were eunuchs and not women. This had certainly always been my own understanding of the cult. Does anyone know if women were indeed allowed to become priestesses of the goddess in the late Republic? Perhaps Ursus could enlighten us on this. I know that Suetonius mentions the 'priests' of Cybele (i.e. the eunuchs) in his Life of Augustus, so they must have still been operating during his principate.

[georgious]

We must give the folks at HBO/BBC credit. They certainly did their research and were quite faithful to realism in season 1.

 

But note Violentilla's original rider to her post - that the 'priestesses' of Magna Mater/Cybele were eunuchs and not women. This had certainly always been my own understanding of the cult. Does anyone know if women were indeed allowed to become priestesses of the goddess in the late Republic? Perhaps Ursus could enlighten us on this. I know that Suetonius mentions the 'priests' of Cybele (i.e. the eunuchs) in his Life of Augustus, so they must have still been operating during his principate.

I would like to point out that Atia was actually the beneficiary of this sacrifice. Usually when a priest officiates in a ceremony he/she does so to confer benefit to a third person. Atia was the recipient of the benefit-there is a saying in my mother-tongue about the priest blessing his beard, the same applies in outr case. But still the benefactor of a religious ceremony is a third person and not the priest who officiates it, that applies to weddings,blessings etc. Therefore Atia may not have acted as priestess in the sacrifice. As to sex of actual priests do we have evidence that can verify such an hypothesis?

[The Augusta]

We must give the folks at HBO/BBC credit. They certainly did their research and were quite faithful to realism in season 1.

 

But note Violentilla's original rider to her post - that the 'priestesses' of Magna Mater/Cybele were eunuchs and not women. This had certainly always been my own understanding of the cult. Does anyone know if women were indeed allowed to become priestesses of the goddess in the late Republic? Perhaps Ursus could enlighten us on this. I know that Suetonius mentions the 'priests' of Cybele (i.e. the eunuchs) in his Life of Augustus, so they must have still been operating during his principate.

I would like to point out that Atia was actually the beneficiary of this sacrifice. Usually when a priest officiates in a ceremony he/she does so to confer benefit to a third person. Atia was the recipient of the benefit-there is a saying in my mother-tongue about the priest blessing his beard, the same applies in outr case. But still the benefactor of a religious ceremony is a third person and not the priest who officiates it, that applies to weddings,blessings etc. Therefore Atia may not have acted as priestess in the sacrifice. As to sex of actual priests do we have evidence that can verify such an hypothesis?

 

Atia may well have been the beneficiary - but the rite described in Violentilla's post concerned the soaking of the priestess in blood. There is no mention in the quotation cited of a beneficiary taking the same part.

 

As for evidence of the sex of Cybele's priests - I should think the word eunuch is clarification enough. It is not a mere hypothesis. See Suetonius, Div.Aug, 68: One day at the Theatre, an actor came on the stage representing a eunuch priest of Cybele, the Mother of the Gods, and as he played his timbrel, another actor exclaimed: "Look, how this invert's finger beats the drum!"

 

See also this article for further examples in the primary sources.

Edited May 10, 2007 by The Augusta

[georgious]

We must give the folks at HBO/BBC credit. They certainly did their research and were quite faithful to realism in season 1.

 

But note Violentilla's original rider to her post - that the 'priestesses' of Magna Mater/Cybele were eunuchs and not women. This had certainly always been my own understanding of the cult. Does anyone know if women were indeed allowed to become priestesses of the goddess in the late Republic? Perhaps Ursus could enlighten us on this. I know that Suetonius mentions the 'priests' of Cybele (i.e. the eunuchs) in his Life of Augustus, so they must have still been operating during his principate.

I would like to point out that Atia was actually the beneficiary of this sacrifice. Usually when a priest officiates in a ceremony he/she does so to confer benefit to a third person. Atia was the recipient of the benefit-there is a saying in my mother-tongue about the priest blessing his beard, the same applies in outr case. But still the benefactor of a religious ceremony is a third person and not the priest who officiates it, that applies to weddings,blessings etc. Therefore Atia may not have acted as priestess in the sacrifice. As to sex of actual priests do we have evidence that can verify such an hypothesis?

 

Atia may well have been the beneficiary - but the rite described in Violentilla's post concerned the soaking of the priestess in blood. There is no mention in the quotation cited of a beneficiary taking the same part.

 

As for evidence of the sex of Cybele's priests - I should think the word eunuch is clarification enough. It is not a mere hypothesis. See Suetonius, Div.Aug, 68: One day at the Theatre, an actor came on the stage representing a eunuch priest of Cybele, the Mother of the Gods, and as he played his timbrel, another actor exclaimed: "Look, how this invert's finger beats the drum!"

 

See also this article for further examples in the primary sources.

Thank you Augusta.I am influenced by Christian practice were the priest is always acting for someone else.

[Montana Watchman]

Read David Livingstone's Ordo ab Chao, page 46-7. He explains how worshippers of Cybele, Ishtar, Rhea, Astarte, Venus, Magna Mater, Queen of Heaven (and her many other thousand various names) was worshiped by Attis (standing watch in New York City's harbor as "Larry Liberty" currently) and his followers with ritualistic floggings, castrating themselves, and the like. "The cult of the Magna Mater also involved a ritual called the taurobolium, where a bull was sacrificed above a pit into which a devotee descended, and was drenched in its blood, as a form of baptism." This is also the ancient roots of the modern form (just reappropriated and altered like "Jewish" sacrifices/pagan sacrifices) of Christianity's "water" baptism/consecration to the goddess/god.