Messalina

[Drusus Nero]

Do you think there ever was a chance Claudius might have forgiven Messalina if he hadn't been tricked in signing her death warrant?.

 

I think if he'd had the choice he would have banished her, as I believe she was the only one of his wives he really did love.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

It's a good job that Narcissus did trick Claudius into signing her death warrant, had he not then it would have surely ended up with the assassination of Claudius.

 

Maybe he did love her at one time but I think that the love he'd had for her had grown cold, and that Claudius had finally realized what sort of woman she really was. Apparently Claudius was at dinner when he was informed of her death and his response was to ask for more wine! Doesn't seem like the response of a man who cared much does it?

[Gaius Octavius]

It's a good job that Narcissus did trick Claudius into signing her death warrant, had he not then it would have surely ended up with the assassination of Claudius.

 

Maybe he did love her at one time but I think that the love he'd had for her had grown cold, and that Claudius had finally realized what sort of woman she really was. Apparently Claudius was at dinner when he was informed of her death and his response was to ask for more wine! Doesn't seem like the response of a man who cared much does it?

 

Is this from 'I Claudius' or from where?

[Drusus Nero]

It's a good job that Narcissus did trick Claudius into signing her death warrant, had he not then it would have surely ended up with the assassination of Claudius.

 

Maybe he did love her at one time but I think that the love he'd had for her had grown cold, and that Claudius had finally realized what sort of woman she really was. Apparently Claudius was at dinner when he was informed of her death and his response was to ask for more wine! Doesn't seem like the response of a man who cared much does it?

 

Is this from 'I Claudius' or from where?

 

 

In the series I think it was early morning when Claudius was informed of Messalina's fate? .

Edited May 1, 2007 by Drusus Nero

[Klingan]

About Claudius reaction to her death. I know Suetonius is more gossip then fact but anyway:

 

Among other things men have marvelled at his absent-mindedness and blindness, or to use the Greek terms, his μετεωρία and ἀβλεψία. When he had put Messalina to death, he asked shortly after taking his place at the table why the empress did not come. He caused many of those whom he had condemned to death to be summoned the very next day to consult with him or game with him, and sent a messenger to upbraid them for sleepy-heads when they delayed to appear. When he was planning his unlawful marriage with Agrippina, in every speech that he made he constantly called her his daughter and nursling, born and brought up in his arms.

 

From Suetonius, Claudius chapter part 39 this translation.

[Nephele]

Considering that Claudius couldn't find it in his heart to spare the infant daughter of his first wife, Plautia Urgulanilla, fathered by Claudius' freedman and born five months after Claudius had already divorced Urgulanilla, does tend to make me doubt that Claudius might have been forgiving of Messalina's indiscretions.

 

Not to mix history with fiction, but I just have to say that I find Claudius' infanticide ironic when taken in context of the television series I, Claudius. In one scene we find Livia complaining to Augustus about young Claudius, saying: "That child should have been exposed at birth!" To which Augustus replies something to the effect: "Yes, well fortunately we don't do that sort of thing anymore." Lucky for Claudius. Not so lucky for Urgulanilla's child.

 

EDIT: Perhaps "infanticide" was too strong a word. Upon re-reading Suetonius, I see that Claudius merely ordered the child (after he had begun to raise her) "to be cast out naked at her mother's door and disowned."

 

-- Nephele

Edited May 1, 2007 by Nephele

[Augustus Caesar]

In the scene following Messalina's execution Claudius sat alone in his own chair and declared to his freedmen when they entered the room "I'll see my wife now."

 

Narcissus.. "She was executed last night... at your order Caesar. Here is the warrant."

 

After a long pause Gita says.. "There is a dispatch from Britain Caesar..." They tell him he is to be made a God in Colchester. Another pause. They leave and Claudius cries. End of episode "A God in Colchester".

 

So that's how he was told in I Claudius!!

 

Wouldn't it be fanatstic to have a window in time to see all this and more?

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

It's a good job that Narcissus did trick Claudius into signing her death warrant, had he not then it would have surely ended up with the assassination of Claudius.

 

Maybe he did love her at one time but I think that the love he'd had for her had grown cold, and that Claudius had finally realized what sort of woman she really was. Apparently Claudius was at dinner when he was informed of her death and his response was to ask for more wine! Doesn't seem like the response of a man who cared much does it?

 

Is this from 'I Claudius' or from where?

 

It's from Tacitus: annals book XI.36

 

Messalina meanwhile, in the gardens of Lucullus, was struggling for life, and writing letters of entreaty, as she alternated between hope arid fury. In her extremity, it was her pride alone which forsook her.Had not Narcissus hurried on her death, ruin would have recoiled on her accuser. Claudius had returned home to an early banquet; then, in softened mood, when the wine had warmed him, he bade some one go and tell the "poor creature" (this is the word which they say he used) to come the morrow and plead her cause. Hearing this, seeing too that his wrath was subsiding and his passion returning, and fearing, in the event of delay, the effect of approaching night and conjugal recollections

 

And

 

Claudius was still at the banquet when they told him that Messalina was dead, without mentioning whether it was by her own or another's hand. Nor did he ask the question, but called for the cup and finished his repast as usual. During the days which followed he showed no sign of hatred or joy or anger or sadness, in a word, of any human emotion, either when he looked on her triumphant accusers or on her weeping children.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Octavia]

I recently posting something along these lines about who murdered Messalina? I thi nk it's sad that Claudius didn't know that she was going to die and found out the next day and I can't help thinking of Britannicus and Octavia. Never the less, I also feel that she did do many other wicked things besides marryingGaius Sillius and for putting others to death, as many as she probably did, would have deserved death.