Pathfinder

[Julius Ratus]

I just saw Pathfinder last night, and it wasn't that bad, if you can seperate historical fiction from blood and guts. This movie was all blood and guts and almost no history; beyond the fact that there were Vikings and American Indians in America and that they did quarrel. If you are cool with this than the movie was well done. I haven't seen the old Sweedish version that this was taken from, but I think that the movie would have been more plausible with Lapps in it, though.

 

Anyone else seen it? If so, what did you think?

[Gaius Octavius]

I can just imagine it. Lapps riding reindeer! That would put the fear of Odin into the Indians.

 

[Julius Ratus]

I meant the Lapps replacing the Indians. As I remember, the roles were reversed. The Vikings settling in North America were from Greenland, hence from Iceland, and were rather tame as far as Vikings go. They weren't raiders, but rather settlers. They seem to have been driven out by the Natives.

[Gaius Octavius]

I meant the Lapps replacing the Indians. As I remember, the roles were reversed. The Vikings settling in North America were from Greenland, hence from Iceland, and were rather tame as far as Vikings go. They weren't raiders, but rather settlers. They seem to have been driven out by the Natives.

 

Nah. Scalped.

 

[Rameses the Great]

The thing I don't understand is that if the Vikings were so big, bad, and ferocious why weren't they able to withstand rather peaceful natives? If you can force your way to the middle of England with angry folks and can't push through a land of friendly natives, then I think that this is somewhat weird.

[Julius Ratus]

The thing I don't understand is that if the Vikings were so big, bad, and ferocious why weren't they able to withstand rather peaceful natives? If you can force your way to the middle of England with angry folks and can't push through a land of friendly natives, then I think that this is somewhat weird.

 

The 'friendly natives' thing is from the cartoon 'Pocahontas', not history. The American Indians knew how to fight for themselves, just ask Geronimo and Red Cloud. The reason they lost to the Wasichu (white-eyes) is that we had vastly superior numbers, superior firepower, and lots of diseases. Back in 1000 AD, the reletively settled Greenlanders who cam over here, were no match for the Natives who had the numbers and the weaponry (a bow was still more effective than a sword) to throw the Vikings out of Vinland.

[caldrail]

The thing I don't understand is that if the Vikings were so big, bad, and ferocious why weren't they able to withstand rather peaceful natives? If you can force your way to the middle of England with angry folks and can't push through a land of friendly natives, then I think that this is somewhat weird.

Not all native americans were peaceful. The iroquoi were positively warlike. Plains indians raided each other and there were some long term bloodfeuds. In fact, I can only think of the pueblo's as a peaceful bunch. Cherokee's maybe? Perhaps someone else has more info.

[Rameses the Great]

I would still think that most Europeans would be more agressive given their harsh envirionments and constant war amongst each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there periods of time, in Europe, when nations sought to conquer all of Europe? Indians were usually agressive because of land and in the plains trying to survive on buffaloes and whatever food they can get.

[Julius Ratus]

I would still think that most Europeans would be more agressive given their harsh envirionments and constant war amongst each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there periods of time, in Europe, when nations sought to conquer all of Europe? Indians were usually agressive because of land and in the plains trying to survive on buffaloes and whatever food they can get.

 

On the plains, maybe. Remember, Native culture covered the entirety of both North and South America. The Aztec, Mixtec, Zapotec, Maya, etc. had large empires on the same scal as the European ones of the time, and they were as sanguinary or more so than their European counterparts. In the woodlands of the East coast the Indians were rather advanced as well and had territories. When the Eastern Indians began forming into larger groups the Europeans came. The Iroquois were had formed a confederacy, and in the Jamestown areas, all the local Indian groups were consolidated under the power of 'King' Powhaten.

[Ursus]

In fact, I can only think of the pueblo's as a peaceful bunch. Cherokee's maybe? Perhaps someone else has more info.

 

 

The Cherokees and four other tribes were referred to by the European/Americans as the "Five Civilized Tribes." They were civilized in the eyes of the Caucasians because they had adopted some European ways (The Cherokees adopted an alphabet, for instance) and had relatively peaceful relations with the Whites.

 

Not that it did them much good in the end.

 

 

As far as AmerIndians being peaceful, remember the Aztecs sacrificed prisoners of war to their gods.