Turks.

[Gaius Octavius]

Those attributes could apply to Constantine XI as well. They could even apply to Mehmed, "Kayser-i Rum"

(The above by Maladict.)

 

This, for me, is an interesting point. I am sure that I will need much correcting on the following:

 

I assume he means Mehmed II Fatih. Prior to the conquest of the Queen of Cities, didn't the Turks call Anatolia 'Rum', their version of 'Rome'? Doesn't the word 'Istanbul' have Latin roots, something like 'Constantine's City'? Didn't Mehmed consider himself successor to the Caesars of old? Didn't he adopt much Roman legislation (law) for his own realm?

Edited April 22, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Found this on Wikipedia

It is said that when Mehmed stepped into the Palace of the Caesars, founded over a thousand years before by Constantine the Great, he uttered the famous line of Persian poetry: "The spider weaves the curtains in the palace of the Caesars; the owl calls the watches in the towers of Afrasiab."

 

After the Fall of Constantinople, Mehmed claimed the title of Roman Emperor, since Byzantium was the nominal succesor of the Roman Empire after the transfer of the capital from Rome to Constantinople in 330 AD. Mehmed also had blood lineage to the Byzantine imperial family, as his predecessors like Sultan Orhan I had married Byzantine princesses. However, he was not the only ruler to claim such a title, as there was the Holy Roman Empire in Western Europe, whose emperor, Frederick III, traced his titular lineage from Charlemagne who obtained the title of Roman Emperor when he was crowned by Pope Leo III in 800.

 

Reference is made to the prospective conquest of Constantinople in an authentic hadith, attributed to a saying of the Prophet Muhammad. "Verily you shall conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will he be, and what a wonderful army will that army be!"

Edited April 22, 2007 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Gaius Octavius]

Considering GPM's post, did the last sultan consider himself a Caesar (in his titles)?

 

Then there is the Third Rome bit in Moscow. Did the Tsars (Caesars) have the title 'Roman Emperor' in their titles? Nicholas the II? Am I wrong in thinking that the Popes had the title 'Roman Emperor' in their titles until the early 20th century? If I am not in error, aside from the Germans and Austrians, the Bulgarians used the title Tsar.

 

Does the title 'Shah' refer to Caesar?

Edited April 22, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Shah was the Persian term for 'Monarch' or 'Ruler' and even 'King of Kings' so I suppose it does refer to Caesar in a round about way.

[Gaius Octavius]

Shah was the Persian term for 'Monarch' or 'Ruler' and even 'King of Kings' so I suppose it does refer to Caesar in a round about way.

 

What I was trying to get at is, does the word 'shah' have its roots in the word Caesar, rather than what it means today?

[Maladict]

Considering GPM's post, did the last sultan consider himself a Caesar (in his titles)?

 

Then there is the Third Rome bit in Moscow. Did the Tsars (Caesars) have the title 'Roman Emperor' in their titles? Nicholas the II? Am I wrong in thinking that the Popes had the title 'Roman Emperor' in their titles until the early 20th century? If I am not in error, aside from the Germans and Austrians, the Bulgarians used the title Tsar.

 

Does the title 'Shah' refer to Caesar?

 

Constantine XI's niece married the ruler of Russia, which is the dynastic link between the 'second' and 'third' Rome. I don't think they ever claimed succession to the Empire, but used the title of Czar just to claim descent and boost their authority. The Bulgarians indeed used the title as well.

I doubt the Popes used the Roman emperor title as they were the ones handing out that title to the German kings.

 

And don't forget modern Romania, the only nation currently using the empire's name.

[Maladict]

What I was trying to get at is, does the word 'shah' have its roots in the word Caesar, rather than what it means today?

 

No, the word shah was used centuries before Caesar's time.

[Pavlos]

Those attributes could apply to Constantine XI as well. They could even apply to Mehmed, "Kayser-i Rum"

(The above by Maladict.)

 

This, for me, is an interesting point. I am sure that I will need much correcting on the following:

 

I assume he means Mehmed II Fatih. Prior to the conquest of the Queen of Cities, didn't the Turks call Anatolia 'Rum', their version of 'Rome'? Doesn't the word 'Istanbul' have Latin roots, something like 'Constantine's City'? Didn't Mehmed consider himself successor to the Caesars of old? Didn't he adopt much Roman legislation (law) for his own realm?

 

Istanbul comes from the greek "IS TIN POLI" the "P" somtimes pronounced "B" (even though thats technically not correct pronunciation), "toward/to the city". people often called Constantinople "the city" and when asked where they were going would say "to the city" or "is tin poli". Anatolia is also a greek word simply meaning "east" or "eastern".

[caldrail]

It doesn't suprise me that Memhet assumed the role of bizantine emperor after Constantinople fell. It isn't that he thought the title was worth anything, its simply an assumption of overlordship over a subjugated territory. It was little more than a formality since he was already a powerful ruler and it was just another title to add to the list.