The Roman Salute

[Ursus]

The stiff arm salute is supposedly Roman in origin. Mussilini resurrected it for his facist mobs, and Hitler borrowed it from him - equating the salute with Nazism in contemporary times.

 

 

Yet it is said the salute was the civic salute of the Roman republic. American school children before the 1930's were once taught to salute the flag in the Roman manner. An old picture shows American citizens rendering the Roman salute to a newly elected Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

 

Is there any primary evidence for the Roman salute? Any first hand drawings or sculptures depicting the salute? And descriptions of it in the literature? Or is just something that was remembered, or perhaps invented, by folk legend?

[Viggen]

Hello Ursus,

 

I found some info at wikipedia about the Bellamy Salute

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

 

and here is more info on that Celebration of Columbus Day day were it was first used

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/search.php?f...n=print&id=5762

 

hope that helps

 

cheers

viggen

[Primus Pilus]

I honestly don't recall any literary evidence of the salute. At least not any describing it in detail. It certainly was mentioned at some point by the ancient sources. As I recall, Trajan's Column does show a small piece with legionaries saluting. I don't remember exactly where, but somewhere near the bottom.

[Guest Scanderbeg]

It was nothing but annoying propaganda. I remember watching the movie Scipio Africanus: The Defeat of Hannibal and I had to laugh when I saw the Roman's doing it like it had a meaning.

[Ursus]

What exactly do you mean?

[Guest Scanderbeg]

Meaning there was little to no historical evidence behind it. It was mainly propaganda incited by Mussolini.

[Jimbow]

There is as much likelihood the saluting gesture was by raising the flat hand to the head, as a Fascist type of gesture. Some even propose the touching of the head goes back to the Stone Age, but really came back into recirded history use when the British changed the rules as their hats and helmets were getting too big during the American War of Independence (the hat was lifted prior to that). There is even a description of the Roman salute being the men lowering their arms. Can't remember the source, could be Vegetius or Polybius.

 

 

Jim.

[Ursus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute

 

According to this the salute was fairly common among a number of cultures. Therefore even if it's not quintessentially Roman, it does long predate Mussolini and Hitler.

[Guest Scanderbeg]

That looks more like a general military solute. Like the one people use in the army

[Marcus Regulus]

Makes me wander if the military salute we use has been universal for a long time?

 

Now that would be tradition wouldn't it.

[Jimbow]

That looks more like a general military solute. Like the one people use in the army

 

Makes me wander if the military salute we use has been universal for a long time?

 

 

That's exactly the point, although the question can turn out to be as debatable as the colour of a legionary's tunic The second image is of foreign troops serving in the Byzantine army, btw. It may be there were different salutes in different periods for different purposes. Who knows. I do like the idea of Mussolini and Hitler getting it wrong, though

[Ursus]

I think the Roman civic salute that is the focus of this thread is different from the military salute. The military salute would be applied in a purely military contexts from soldiers to officers.

 

The civic salute was used by citizens and senators. For instance, when Caesar won a civic award for heroism at a young age, thereafter everyone (even Senators) were required to rise to their feet and render him the civic salute.