Kosmo Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Very sad event. If violence in any society it's to some extent normal this kind of useless mass murder it's imposible to explain. A tragic waste made by a person who literally run amok killing strangers with whom he had no quarrel or interest. Beside the gun discussion this event will be bringing fuel on the american debate on the role of culture in triggering murder especially if it is true that the criminal was a chinese student from Shanghai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Armed society is polite society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Armed society is polite society. Actually, that quote originally came from Robert Heinlein, a favorite author of mine and highly entertaining curmudgeon. -- Nephele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosquito Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Gee, come to think of it, they must not teach Roman history in Poland either. Did you know the Romans had NO GUNS yet found plenty of creative ways to kill one another? Aye but you had to be creazy gladiator to kill 30 ppl. And you wouldnt have chance to kill that many in space of few hours but it would take years instead. The law says that no one may own a gun, so you feel safer because you know that the bad men obey the gun control laws. Is this a Polish gun control joke? -- Nephele So far Iv never seen a bad man with gun. If everyone can have a gun it means that idiots can have it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenilla Merula Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 I've been deeply saddened by this, and around my area, I'm surprised how no one is really talking about it or taking it seriously at all. I'm thinking it's just a natural progression from being desensitized from the war or just plain apathy? Reading on how the kids jumped out of the window, and one student looking back at his professor holding back the door for them really broke my heart. Of course, he was shot down. My heart goes out to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 In reply to nobody in particular, but simply my own thoughts... We as a society are always looking to place blame on anyone or anything except the person, place or thing that deserves it. It wasn't a gun that killed these 32 people it was a disturbed sociopath, or a homicidal maniac, or whatever series of labels you deem fit to place on him. I already hear main stream media suggestions of this being a warranted response to elitist society rejection. The blame game and the spin has already begun, but let's be clear that it wasn't a pistol, or a rifle, a knife, a club, a hand grenade, a strapped on bomb, an automobile, an airplane or any damned thing else that killed these people. It wasn't the police, the supposedly poor reaction of the university administration, the law, the guy that provided/sold the weapon(s), the killer's parents, a teacher, a school guidance counselor, a psychiatrist, American society in general, the privileged elite, the poor, the indifferent masses, Don Imus, South Korea, global warming, the economy, Satan, the NRA, GW Bush, Iraq, "Terrorists", US foreign policy, Smith and/or Wesson, Glock, all residents of politically neutral Austria for allowing the manufacture of Glock, the University of VA Tech as an institution, its student body and faculty, video games, television, and not even the self glorifying sensationalist media for thriving on such moments. It was this murdering prick who decided all by himself that the right course of action was to purposely murder 32 people and attempt the same on countless others with his own actions. I just hope that somewhere deep down, as the politicians, pundits, lobbyists, talk-show hosts, journalists, etc. line up to place blame where ever it best benefits them, that people remember that a myriad of lives have been horribly altered by the actions of this disturbed prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Well said P-P, that unequivocally articulates my feelings on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovicus Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Armed society is polite society. Hmm... "Armed society is polite society." So forget about stepping on someone's shoe on the bus, forget about cutting someone off on the freeway, forget about your dog peeing on your neighbor's lawn--the guy who's wife just left him, forget about giving students the grades they deserve because one of their daddies is packing heat, forget about saying something wrong to a fellow worker who's forgotten to take his anti-psychotic medications, forget about going to any large gathering where there may be two or more factions, etc. An "armed society" would be a descent into hell. We saw some of that hell yesterday on the the campus of Virginia Tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 An "armed society" would be a descent into hell. We saw some of that hell yesterday on the the campus of Virginia Tech. You missed the point, Ludovicus, which was brought home in 2002 when armed students at the Appalachian Law School in the state of Virginia stopped a gunman cold, in his tracks. Cowards who attack those whom they perceive to be helpless, unarmed victims will be less inclined to do such deeds if there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Ahh... I now understand the context of Ratus' statement. This is a very complex debate which can become very polarised. I personally dont know which view to take - students may well have stopped a gunman in 2002, and obviously the right to bear arms stopped a terrible crime from being committed. However, most of the mass killings of this nature in Britain have been carried out by licenced gun owners who have otherwise been law abiding individuals, slightly socially awkward and timid individuals. If the law had made it impossible - or illegal for them to own guns, these attrocities -at least, in this country - may well have not occurred. In our country illegally acquired firearms tend to be owned by disadvantaged youths who commit one mistake and then regret it for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 You make a good point, Neil, as countries do differ. Plus, the United States has a long history of private gun ownership, which has been romanticized in our movies and literature of the Old West. As for citizens in Britain... I do recall reading a few years ago about some poor man whose home and property had been repeatedly vandalized by the local thugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 (edited) Ahh... I now understand the context of Ratus' statement. This is a very complex debate which can become very polarised. I personally dont know which view to take - students may well have stopped a gunman in 2002, and obviously the right to bear arms stopped a terrible crime from being committed. However, most of the mass killings of this nature in Britain have been carried out by licenced gun owners who have otherwise been law abiding individuals, slightly socially awkward and timid individuals. If the law had made it impossible - or illegal for them to own guns, these attrocities -at least, in this country - may well have not occurred. In our country illegally acquired firearms tend to be owned by disadvantaged youths who commit one mistake and then regret it for the rest of their lives. Yes, it's odd that many Americans value the second admendment, but you just wouldn't expect in any stable and sane society that someone would even dare try to commit mass murder. You just would not assume that the person who is acting odd, like the killer, would even have the power to think of such crimes, nor could you force him to change if you knew his intentions. In my class today, my teacher importantly said, no what gun control restrictions you have, it will and can happen anywhere and anytime. You just cannot stop it. Even if the US banned gun ownership, I still, for example, would be able to buy one by hitting up a drug dealer,or smuggler, or the vast black market that there is up in some banged-up neighborhood. It'll harder to obtain them, but people with bad intentions eventually get them. I suppose America is just different. Edited April 17, 2007 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 I do indeed remember this item, as it caused massive debate in Britain at the time. The overwhelming sympathy was for the home owner involved, and not the dead intruder. I do not have a gun myself (I used to - an Enfield muzzle loading rifle musket from my days as a Union soldier in the American Civil War Society). This was by law locked away in a metal cabinet, with the gunpowder and ball locked in a separate cabinet in another part of the house. So the law of our country made it very difficult for me even as a gun owner to unlock, load and use this weapon in the event of an intrusion. I think that is why this man was convicted, because he had pre - meditatively unlocked and loaded his gun in anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 As P-P said: guns don't kill people, people kill people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 I really hate hearing of this stuff... especially considering the fact that I am a student. This is just horrible! Well, thanks God consitution of my country dont give the right to have weapon as personal freedom so I can go outside without need to consider if the people walking on the street are armed or not. They must not teach statistics in your country either. Since 1993 the U.S. handgun murder rate has decreased 48 percent, even as the number of privately owned handguns in America has increased by more than 20 million. Meanwhile, your beloved Poland has a higher murder rate than the US. Gee, come to think of it, they must not teach Roman history in Poland either. Did you know the Romans had NO GUNS yet found plenty of creative ways to kill one another? True, but the firearm murder rate is significantly higher in America than it is in Poland, and I think Mosquito's point was that getting shot is far more of a rarity in Poland. Besides, the context of the murders taking place in Poland is seemingly different to those in the USA: Poland has a high rate of organised crime associated with the mafia (imported from the Ukraine), and many of the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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