Nephele Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Northern Neil, one of my British in-laws is a retired policeman. I hear that in some areas of Britain the police are now being allowed to carry firearms. When my in-law was still on the force he did have a gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 My Uncle is a British police officer trained in firearms, and this is still certainly the case with his work. ...and yet, even this amount of caution did not prevent the death of an innocent Brazilian electrician suspected of being a muslim terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosquito Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 True, but the firearm murder rate is significantly higher in America than it is in Poland, and I think Mosquito's point was that getting shot is far more of a rarity in Poland. Besides, the context of the murders taking place in Poland is seemingly different to those in the USA: Poland has a high rate of organised crime associated with the mafia (imported from the Ukraine), and many of the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 True, but the firearm murder rate is significantly higher in America than it is in Poland, and I think Mosquito's point was that getting shot is far more of a rarity in Poland. Well, then, that would be a really pointless point. If the murder rate in Poland is higher than the US (which it is), who cares whether the manner of murder is gun, rope, knife, or candlestick??? in America, however, murders are less controlled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Exactly. Not to mention that bad guys usually kill only other bad guys and average citisen dont even notice it. Statistic? Evidence? Or is this pure hot air? The chance that someone at home will get shot raises by 20% (for example that your kids will grab the gun, play with it and that it will lead to an accident.) So what? It's still a tiny, tiny risk. Put this statistic in context. According to Levitt and Dubnar, "In a given year, there is one drowning of a child for every 11,000 residential pools in the United States. (In a country with 6 million pools, this means that roughly 550 children under the age of ten drown each year.) Meanwhile, there is 1 child killed by a gun for every 1 millionplus guns. (In a country with an estimated 200 million guns, this means that roughly 175 children under ten die each year from guns.)" Thus, the likelihood of death by pool (1 in 11,000) versus death by gun (1 in 1 million-plus) differs by a factor of 100. Following the logic that a marginal risk of only 20% should lead to a ban on handgun, we should ban swimming pools too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divi Filius Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Apparently new details have come out regarding the killer; much of it is the usual: - loner(antisocial) - possible history of abuse* - HE SET HIS DORM ON FIRE AT ONE POINT!!!! The upper ones only appear in hindsight of the event, however the third is incredible. The fact that he was allowed to remain in the campus after he committed arson strikes me as odd. *The plays he wrote while in a creative writing class have been released. Many of them are disturbing; he was recommended counseling for having been the victim of sexual abuse in his childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovicus Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 You can't stop people from murdering. There will always be murders. But what if yesterday's killer hadn't been able to buy that gun, had he been a stabber and not a shooter. Do you think 32 people would be dead today? Go after me with "a rope, a knife, or a candlestick" and I've got a lot better chance of not being your victim. Guns increase the damage and that's the reason they should be controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 When Flavius first posted this I had no idea it would evolve into a gun control debate. I am in shock and awe. Never saw that one coming. [Arena Bound] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Ratus Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 An "armed society" would be a descent into hell. We saw some of that hell yesterday on the the campus of Virginia Tech. You missed the point, Ludovicus, which was brought home in 2002 when armed students at the Appalachian Law School in the state of Virginia stopped a gunman cold, in his tracks. Cowards who attack those whom they perceive to be helpless, unarmed victims will be less inclined to do such deeds if there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Yes, it's odd that many Americans value the second admendment... I suppose America is just different. Why on Earth is it odd? You know why it will never go away? Because it is one of the most fundamental things that make Americans American. That is why it's #2! Damn right it's different from the rest of the world but it's supposed to be. Not many people have really tried hard to invade the United States proper now have they? Yes there are bound to be nut jobs who break the laws and violate other's rights but the 2nd is all about a government actually telling its people: "I TRUST YOU" The minute Americans loose sight of that simple truth, our noble experiment is on it's way out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyricVT Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 I'm not all surprised that this damn debate has started again. For what it's worth, I come down on the side of allowing people to protect themselves, but I'm not going to debate this now. I graduated from Virginia Tech in May 2004. I lived in West Ambler-Johnston for my first two years. Anywhere from one-third to half my classes took place in Norris Hall my last few years at Tech. If this had happened three years ago, I could be dead right now. I have friends who are still at Tech and who still live in Blacksburg. I have professors who I care very deeply about who teach in that building. The coworker of a good friend of mine lost her daughter in the shooting. This is a horrible tragedy and the Virginia Tech community is still coming to terms with what has happened. I wish the media and the politicians would shut up about gun control, school security, and all the other assorted bullsh*t and just mourn the dead and care for the wounded, the families, and the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 I have friends who are still at Tech and who still live in Blacksburg. I have professors who I care very deeply about who teach in that building. The coworker of a good friend of mine lost her daughter in the shooting. Deepest condolences to you and your friends, CyricVT. -- Nephele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyricVT Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Thank you, Nephele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 I have friends who are still at Tech and who still live in Blacksburg. I have professors who I care very deeply about who teach in that building. The coworker of a good friend of mine lost her daughter in the shooting. Deepest condolences to you and your friends, CyricVT. I echo this, too...Did you know anyone who was injured or killed? How are you doing with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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