Collecting Roman Coins

[Marcus Caelius]

I'm starting to get interested in coin collecting, and would kind of like to have a few ancient pieces. Problem is, I know absolutely nothing about them (I'm a bit better with current issues). A quick look at eBay fills me with far more trepidation than anything else. For instance:

 

Just in from Europe!!!

This lot of uncleaned Roman coins has just arrived from Europe and they are the best we have seen in quite some time. While most of the coins will turn out to be bronze, we have had many recent reports of SILVER and even GOLD as you can see in our feedback...and these coins are from the very same archeological dig!

 

That last bit, especially, has me wondering, and I suppose it's really the first question I should ask: How do ancient coins and other artifacts cross the Atlantic, legally? Or do they?

 

And where do I go from there?

 

BTW, the "Buy It Now" price for the lot from which the quote was taken is $29.95. Seems cheap for the real thing, and expensive for a fake.

Edited April 4, 2007 by Marcus Caelius

[Primus Pilus]

First... any dealer who reports gold or silver finds in these lots is a liar. All bulk finds are thoroughly hand picked for anything of value. What's left are generally hordes of Constantinian era bronzes that are sent to dealers for consumer sale. Some dealers then search again for anything of value before distribution, while some may honestly sell the lot "as-is". If there is a silver coin found it is because the dealer adds a low value coin to the lot in order to perpetuate the myth and to keep buyers coming back for a chance at something really valuable. Amateurs who over-scrub coins (in essence destroying their monetary and archaeological value) seem to occasionally mistake shiny bronze for gold.

 

An example of a reputable dealer Dirty Old Coins

 

The legality is often in question, but ethics seem to be the larger issue. Some think the entire industry is an archaeological tragedy. Others find it an excellent way to grow interest in history and numismatics through the spread of largely uninteresting coin hordes. The debate is on going and evolving.

[Northern Neil]

I subscribe, personally, from the 'Archaeological tragedy' side of the debate. I have personal experience of guarding local sites following the distruction of irreplaceable material by metal - detecting vultures. There are reputable dealers, and chance finds do come up in which the finder honestly submits the more interesting of his finds to the local museum. But even if just 1% of coins traded are as a result of archaeological plundering to supply a demand, then I would suggest that people do not fuel the demand in the first place.

 

I do hope I have not offended anyone by posting this opinion, but to arrive for a mornings work at a dig and find that hypocausts have been wrecked and tesselated floors ploughed through for the sake of a few bits of metal is a distressing experience indeed.

[Maladict]

FORVM ancient coins is another good place to start.

A broad collection of coins for sale, as well as 'bargain lots', which are well suited to beginners.

They also have interesting articles and a large and knowledgeable forum community.

 

I'm basically with NN on this, having seen the damage those metal detector guys cause everywhere, amateurs and professionals alike. Chances are you will be helping to perpetuate it. And if an offer sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

[Primus Pilus]

By the by, almost all of these uncleaned hoards come from the Balkans. Archaeological appraisal of interesting sites in this area often lags far behind other western European counterparts. As the diggers have little to no interest in historical preservation, the damage done to potential sites of interest surrounding these coin digs is virtually impossible to determine.

[M. Porcius Cato]

An example of a reputable dealer Dirty Old Coins

 

This poster is pretty cool.

[Marcus Caelius]

Thanks to everyone who replied. After digging around on the 'net and checking out the links provided (btw, the Tantalus at Dirty Old Coins should be considered indispensable for coin identification), I found a bronze coin with an adequately clear depiction of Vespasian (reverse Pax, seated) whose price ($35) seemed to match its condition and purported authenticity.

 

I subscribe, personally, from the 'Archaeological tragedy' side of the debate...I do hope I have not offended anyone by posting this opinion, but to arrive for a mornings work at a dig and find that hypocausts have been wrecked and tesselated floors ploughed through for the sake of a few bits of metal is a distressing experience indeed.

 

Neil, I hope I have not offended you by buying the coin! I am in full sympathy with you and completely understand; I've chased more than one treasure hunter out of more than one historical park, myself. I am also aware that no individual raindrop considers itself responsible for the flood. Having said that, I purchased from what I judged to be a reputable dealer, which I take to mean that all his dealings, including his sources, were reputable. By analogy, yes, there are plenty of pushers out there, but there are also pharmacists. I had no more ethical qualms buying the coin than I did buying a lump of coal from the Titanic, a piece of hull from the USS Constitution, or a lump of concrete from the Berlin Wall. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I see no reason to suppose my coin might have been wrongly obtained.

[Northern Neil]

Neil, I hope I have not offended you by buying the coin! I am in full sympathy with you and completely understand;

No offense taken whatsoever - I actually own a couple myself, bought for me as presents by friends. Now I have them, I do not think throwing them away will help anything. But I think its important that people are aware as to how coins could, and sometimes do, come onto the general market.

[Ursus]

Most of the coins seem to come after Christian conversion.

 

If I wanted to find a coin with the image of a specific deity (e.g., Mercury), where would I look and how much would I be paying?

[Marcus Caelius]

If I wanted to find a coin with the image of a specific deity (e.g., Mercury), where would I look and how much would I be paying?

 

First, if you don't already, learn to recognise what it is you're looking for. I suggest you start here.

 

Second, learn something about the market.

 

Third, just start looking. eBay is an obvious place, but you can also just Google. As talked about in previous posts, the trick is to hook up with a reputable dealer so that neither you nor the archeologists and historians get screwed.

 

Fourth, realize that this advice is being offered by someone who has purchased precisely one Roman coin, which he has yet to receive. Having said that, the rules appear pretty similar to other hobbies of this type: don't buy what you don't know or aren't attracted to, have an idea of what the market is, know how to recognise a fraud, and so on.

 

Myself, I do have some skepticism about the coin I bought, but I don't plan on getting much further in. Vespasian is my "favorite" emperor, and it just seems rather "convenient" that I found something satisfatory for so little effort and money. Still, I figure I can afford to believe that the coin is as it appears.

 

I'd post a photo, but I don't seem to have access to any album utility.

[Primus Pilus]

Most of the coins seem to come after Christian conversion.

 

If I wanted to find a coin with the image of a specific deity (e.g., Mercury), where would I look and how much would I be paying?

 

You chose a deity that was relatively rare on coinage in comparison to some so you would be likely to pay more than say something with Jupiter... Here's a quick sampling..

 

Something like this very sharp Octavian denarius would likely cost several hundred if not thousands of dollars. This equally attractive Republican denarius might be had for less, but I'm not very familiar with the particular issue.

 

Something like this anonymous sextans might be had for a more reasonable $20 to $50. (Just a guess)

[Ursus]

Thanks for the links, PP. Vcoins has several affordable coins with the deities I want. This could be the start of a new hobby for me.

 

 

M. Caelius:

 

I'd post a photo, but I don't seem to have access to any album utility.

 

Stick around on the forum long enough and you'll be promoted to Equestrian, giving you access to both the galleries and blogs.

[Marcus Caelius]

Stick around on the forum long enough and you'll be promoted to Equestrian, giving you access to both the galleries and blogs.

 

Oh, that's it. How long is "long enough"? Another forum I belong to has a 50-post threshold; I'm heading for my 4-thousandth post there, so being a newbie again is a bit of a culture shock.

[Ursus]

There is no exact criteria. After a few weeks of quality participation, wherein you demonstrate you are a serious member and not a complete idiot and jerk, either one of the Triumviri promotes you or one of the Legati recommends your promotion to the Triumviri. Contributing thoughtful reviews and articles may expedite the time frame.

 

Look here for more: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4365

 

 

Oh, that's it. How long is "long enough"? Another forum I belong to has a 50-post threshold; I'm heading for my 4-thousandth post there, so being a newbie again is a bit of a culture shock.

[Marcus Caelius]

There is no exact criteria. After a few weeks of quality participation, wherein you demonstrate you are a serious member and not a complete idiot and jerk...

 

Well, that does me, I'm afraid. Since joining, I've been finding out I don't know anywhere near what I thought I do.