De Patre Vostro (Episode 22)

[M. Porcius Cato]

Did anyone find the display of Antony's corpse (i.e., seated) to be interesting? I've seen this depiction of Roman death in only one previous dramatic depiction, and I've never found a source supporting the depiction. Even within the series, corpses have been displayed lying (Caesar), standing (Julia), and now seated (Antony). What gives?

[Nephele]

Did anyone find the display of Antony's corpse (i.e., seated) to be interesting? I've seen this depiction of Roman death in only one previous dramatic depiction, and I've never found a source supporting the depiction. Even within the series, corpses have been displayed lying (Caesar), standing (Julia), and now seated (Antony). What gives?

 

Am I remembering incorrectly, or didn't I, Claudius show Agrippina arriving in Rome with the corpse of Germanicus (or a replication of Germanicus) carried off the ship reclining on a litter?

 

-- Nephele

Edited March 29, 2007 by Nephele Carnalis

[The Augusta]

Did anyone find the display of Antony's corpse (i.e., seated) to be interesting? I've seen this depiction of Roman death in only one previous dramatic depiction, and I've never found a source supporting the depiction. Even within the series, corpses have been displayed lying (Caesar), standing (Julia), and now seated (Antony). What gives?

 

Am I remembering incorrectly, or didn't I, Claudius show Agrippina arriving in Rome with the corpse of Germanicus (or a replication of Germanicus) carried off the ship reclining on a litter?

 

-- Nephele

 

That was meant to be a wax effigy of the deceased, Nephele - as his ashes were in the urn she carried. Reports of Augustus' funeral also stated that his body was enclosed in a sarcophagus on which was placed a wax effigy of him.

[Zeke]

I don't know everyone...I thought the second season was better then the first. Its epicness was more apparent to me. But the historical inacuracies were still preety bad.

 

SO I AM DYING TO KNOW. IS THIS THE END? FOR REAL? or is there going to be a season 3?

 

Much apperciation,

Zeke

Edited March 30, 2007 by Zeke

[Nephele]

That was meant to be a wax effigy of the deceased, Nephele - as his ashes were in the urn she carried. Reports of Augustus' funeral also stated that his body was enclosed in a sarcophagus on which was placed a wax effigy of him.

 

Ah, thank you. I'm remembering the urn now, that Agrippina carried.

 

Not to go too far off topic, but I wonder whether the Roman Catholic veneration of saints in the form of wax effigies on public display might be yet another carryover from Roman practice? In Manhattan there's a church up near Fort Tryon Park, and its altar is actually a clear glass sarcophagus publicly displaying the remains of the Roman Catholic saint known as Mother Cabrini. They say it's actually her "incorruptible" dead body that's been lying there intact since the 1930s, as saints aren't supposed to decay after death. I've seen her and, while the love of the macabre in me quite likes the idea of a nearly 80-year-old corpse adorning a church, I find I must, disappointedly, go with the wax effigy theory.

 

-- Nephele

[Nephele]

Did anyone find the display of Antony's corpse (i.e., seated) to be interesting? I've seen this depiction of Roman death in only one previous dramatic depiction, and I've never found a source supporting the depiction. Even within the series, corpses have been displayed lying (Caesar), standing (Julia), and now seated (Antony). What gives?

 

Here

[Marcus Apathicus]

I beg to differ. The only bad thing about this episode was knowing it was the last one of the series. I know the show hasn't exactly been a history lesson (though it wasn't that far off either), but it has entertained, amused and generally delighted me so in the past few months.

Pullo only lied out of loyalty to his friend (contrast with the early reprobate irresponsible Pullo), and I don't see how that is morally reprehensible. In fact I found it most amusing when "Octavian" says at one point about Lucius Vorenus that "[he] turned loyalty into a vice" (I'm quoting from memory). That is a very "unroman" thing to say if anything.

Atia is obviously only loosely based on the eponymous historical character (who indeed was dead by the time of Augustus' triumph)

The whole Caesarion swearing vengeance thing was a bit ridiculous, but in no way does it invalidate the great artistic accomplishments of the series.

I am hoping (in vain, I know) for a third season, but HBO seems to take a sadistic pleasure in producing great shows and then canceling them only after 2 seasons (see Deadwood, Carnivale etc.)

Edited April 1, 2007 by Marcus Apathicus

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

Well the thing is Pullo went from the everyday underdog you could cheer for in the first season to a almost complete sociopath in the second season. The fact is he didn't just lie to Octavian he murdered his fellow Roman soldiers while protecting a enemy of Rome, and this is from the same guy who is always yelling "13th", now if that is not treason i don't know what is. As for a third season they did leave the door open for it, but i doubt it will ever come unless there is a huge fan push for it.

[Tiberius Junius Virtus]

I actually really enjoyed how Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra were handled. Not only did I enjoy the apparent physical opposites of the two characters (one being a lion, the other a mouse), but their portayal in this series provided me with a scene I consider one of the greatest I have ever seen on TV, and I do not say that lightly. It simply resonates with me very deeply. The scene in question occurs when Cleopatra learns Octavius intends to betray her and drag her back to Rome. Full of regret she walks up to the body of Antonius sitting on his throne. Then comes the part I truly love. She sits on his lap and wraps his dead arms around her in an embrace as she begs his forgiveness for betraying him.

 

There are so many reasons I love this scene. One is how weak and tiny Cleopatra looks especially when compared to the dead body of Marcus Antonius. Cleopatra who was far from helpless seems to be so in that moment. More than anything she needs Antonius. She needs him for protection-- To look after her and make things right. It is thanks to her own betrayal that she has neither. I think this is also the scene that most clearly delves into the depth of their relationship and their love for one another. Especially when taken into context with the many scenes with her in which Antonius is so gentle with her it is almost as if he is afraid she will break into pieces like a piece of porcelain. Something that seems so out of character for him it is all the sweeter. He was certainly never that way with Atia. Another reason I love the scene is because of how the gravity of the situation becomes so apparent when she wraps his arms around herself. Marcus Antonius, the embodiment of Hercules and vibrant force of life, is really dead. He will no longer hold her. No longer kiss her. There are other layers to this scene but I think most of all it shows exactly why I love this series.

 

Not to forget the death of Antonius of course. He dies in an embrace with a man who seems to be the very embodiment of Roman ideals in a way returning to his roots. The way Vorenus dressed him in full regalia afetrwards was very moving. Along with Caesar's I think Antonius' was probably the best death scene in the series (which has otherwise had plenty of those).

[M. Porcius Cato]

Then comes the part I truly love. She sits on his lap and wraps his dead arms around her in an embrace as she begs his forgiveness for betraying him.

 

Yes, that was a touch of real dramatic art. It's too bad Heller didn't do more of the scripts.