Question on Thebes

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

Thebes during Xerxes invasion was the biggest supporter of the Persians in Greece during the invasion and fought fanatically with them at Plataea, now after the Greeks expelled the Persians from the Greek mainland, did Thebes suffer any punishment. If i were the Greek city-states i would have been incensed at Thebes fanatical support of the Persians. But it seems that Thebes really suffered no backlash for its involvement in the Persian Wars. Am i wrong about this? Was the growing rivally between Athens and Sparta the reason Thebes seemed to escape punishment?

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Here's a quick and very short citation that should answer your questions:Link to article [Courtesy of Bartleby.com]

chief city of Boeotia, in ancient Greece. It was originally a Mycenaean city. Thebes is rich in associations with Greek legend and religion (see Oedipus; the Seven against Thebes; Epigoni). Sometime before 1000 B.C., Thebes was settled by Boeotians and rapidly replaced Orchomenus as the region

[Ursus]

A treacherous little polis if there ever was one.

[civis]

To be fair had Athens not supported the Ionians in thier war against the Persians, they may well have never invaded the Greek mainland. Yes the invasion was overkill but even the Greek historians say that it was a bad move on Athens part. It is also important to understand how deeply the Thebans hated the Athenians. I dont know that the thebans saw themselves as betraying "greece." They were only unified in a general belief in the Hellenic identity, not a national identity that would go so deep as to call their support of the Persians an out and out Treasonus act. The Polis of Thebes was doing like many other cities(for thebes was not the only supporter of the Persians) in supporting the Persian side they were trying to survive. The Persians, they assumed, would win and treat those who had helped them kindly and punish those who did not.

[M. Porcius Cato]

The Polis of Thebes was doing like many other cities(for thebes was not the only supporter of the Persians) in supporting the Persian side they were trying to survive. The Persians, they assumed, would win and treat those who had helped them kindly and punish those who did not.

Isn't that the very definition of cowardice?

[civis]

Yes I suppose it would be cowardly if they had any reason to be loyal to Athens and then shrugged off the responsibility. As it was the wave of conquest that was the Persian empire was rapidly approaching. They had no reason to help Athens in their war and they did not. Admittedly this is more underhanded than say Sparta who also had no real love for the Athenians(though I dont know much about there pre invasion relationship). Thebes wasnt a military society though, they just wanted to not die and be left about thier affairs. The Persians, they thought, were going to win. Because of the Ionian War the Persians were going to burn down temples if not entire cities, I assume they rather liked their little corner of Hellas and perfered its continued existance.

 

I dont say this was the bravest action. I am not really even trying to argue that what they did was morally proper. Athens was kind of to blame for the war. They didnt like Athens. They couldnt stop the invasion. Why not preserve their city if possiable. Its easy to call them cowards but I think that if you reflect on their situation you would be hard pressed to disagree with them.

[Kosmo]

Greek identity played a little role in chosing sides. After all Rome conquered Greece with the active participation of many greek cities.

Even later christians fought between themselves more then they did others.

 

Decisions were taken based on the interest of the polis and the political sympathies of the leaders rather then on panhellenism that was never a rallying cry. Many ionians fought biterly against Alexander and were later opposed to the diadohi.

 

Cowardice? No. Cowards don't fight. Just political reasons to bet on the persians and maybe hopes to became a hegemon of Greece under persian supervision. Today's Russia it's the direct growth of a small city, Moscow, that won the trust of his mongol overlords and was empowered to police some other vassals.

 

The example of Alexander I of Macedon that in the same campaign as a persian allie tipped of greeks of persian plans and finally attacked the persians cutting their retreat it's a good one as is the good fight that the queen of Halicarnass put at Salamina.

[Julius Ratus]

As much as I dislike the Thebans, being a Spartaphile, they really had no choice. The main plan was to wall off the Peloponese and hold out there. The Athenians knew they would recieve no mercy from the Persians, so their decision to join Sparta and the Peloponnesians was less out of bravery than out of desperation. The Thebans, being north of the Isthmus of Corinth were being sold down the river. Given the choice between fighting alone for the defence of others, and going with the flow, they chose the obvious choice.