Isolationism and WWII

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

My AP class has finally reached WWII! One of the main points I'm taking from the unit is how WWII came about. After WWI, America pulled into extreme isolationism, mainly due to problems at home (Great Depression) and failure of Europeans to pay their debt back. Near the end of the 30's we see thugs like Hitler, Moussulini, and the Japanese pushing their way around. Normally powers like the US arbitrate and solver their issues, or voice their displeasure. Well, according to the text, America was so dissilusioned with European affairs they refused to intervene at all costs, allowing the fascists to build their stage and eventually dominate Europe.

 

Did lack of US intervention in european affairs really be a reason for issues to climax to world war? If you want examples, just ask.

[Rameses the Great]

My AP class has finally reached WWII! One of the main points I'm taking from the unit is how WWII came about. After WWI, America pulled into extreme isolationism, mainly due to problems at home (Great Depression) and failure of Europeans to pay their debt back. Near the end of the 30's we see thugs like Hitler, Moussulini, and the Japanese pushing their way around. Normally powers like the US arbitrate and solver their issues, or voice their displeasure. Well, according to the text, America was so dissilusioned with European affairs they refused to intervene at all costs, allowing the fascists to build their stage and eventually dominate Europe.

 

The best explanation I can probably give was that the American army was at that time not up to speed with much of Europe. I personally believe the later the Americans entered the war, the less the economic toll would be. America liked to put its business in small matters but a World War was a big issue.

 

Perhaps it even shows to its German citizens that it will choose a path of nonalignment if not directly impacted.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Rameses the Great

[Ursus]

The very question is a bit American centric insofar as it presupposes the conflict could have been averted with American initiative. While American isolationism did not help matters, Europeans were quite capable with or without American help of starting wars amongst themselves. *snicker* The Versaille Treaty together with the Great Depression basically assured Germany was going to be a powder keg of seething rage fit for extremists groups to manipulate.

 

Also, the question is Eurocentric. Why only European affairs? For East Asians, the Second World War began when the Japanese attacked Manchuria in 1937. There is a whole another theatre of war over there somewhere beyond Poland.

 

I think the question is, even though war was probably fated, could the United States have mitigated matters for the Allies by active and early entry? Most likely. A world where Germany ruled Europe and Japan ruled the Pacific would have put the US in a bad position. American isolationism has always been na

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

I personally believe the later the Americans entered the war, the less the economic toll would be. America liked to put its business in small matters but a World War was a big issue.

 

America did not want another war. Even the citizens did not want another war. I could list the neutrality laws passed to keep us out. Roosevelt was smart, though, when he saw what was happenening and increased defense spending.

 

For East Asians, the Second World War began when the Japanese attacked Manchuria in 1937.

 

Yes. But as in europe, all we did was protest. Even when Japan declared the "Open Door Notes" dead (our economic ties with china), all we could do was protest.

 

The very question is a bit American centric insofar as it presupposes the conflict could have been averted with American initiative.

 

My first thought exact.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Antiochus of Seleucia

[Gaius Octavius]

The attempt and then the success in Austria, the marches into the Rhineland and the Sudetenland ("Peace in our time") emboldened Hitler. Short of declaring war on Germany, I don't think that the US could have altered affairs. Italy was of little or no consequence, save for holding off Operation Barbarossa for a few months.

 

As far as Asia is concerned, the US had an aged fleet and a small and unprepared army. The US eventually cut off Japan's oil supply.

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

Well for one thing the reason that the fascist and nazi parties were popular and had influence was a massive fear of Soviet communism, which was reasonable considering the Comintern's activities in other nations. One of the reasons that Japan attacked the US was because it lost a series of border wars to the Soviet Union in 1939, so they decided it would be more easier to take on the British, French and Americans in the South than the Soviets in the north. Also lets not forget that the Soviet Union also invaded Poland from the east in 1939, and invaded Finland in 1940 which resulted in horrendous losses for the Red Army. Also during the 20's and 30's politicians such as Winston Churchhill wanted a stronger Germany as a buffer against the Soviet Union. In the end a global war was ineviable, and the stupidest thing Hitler could of done was declare war on the US.

[Segestan]

The US could Not have prevented nor delayed WWII regardless of any timing of events. WWII can be directly traced to the The Fall of the Ottoman Empire , the genocides in Armenia , the Wars in the Balkans resulting in the destruction of Macedonia , the creation of the Greek Empire; these then resulting in WWI ....all these movements happening within the Marxist movement, and Socialist idealism. The World was at a cultural cross roads after the Stock Market Plunge of 29. The Third World was broke , Europe was broke and in social chaos , the East was under Imperialism. America was the Only Free voice in the world. Would Freedom retreat or fight for survival? The world has progressed by great leaps since the Victorious allied Forces.

The World has enjoyed a time of peace and prosperity since the end of hostilities in Europe primarily because of the US and NATO.

Those days are near an end.

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

Yes. But as in europe, all we did was protest. Even when Japan declared the "Open Door Notes" dead (our economic ties with china), all we could do was protest.

Not quite true. It was Japanese adventurism in Manchuria and elsewhere that led to the U.S embargo on Japan and this was a primary catalyst in the motivation behind the Pearl Harbor attack.

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

WWII can be directly traced to the The Fall of the Ottoman Empire , the genocides in Armenia , the Wars in the Balkans resulting in the destruction of Macedonia , the creation of the Greek Empire; these then resulting in WWI

Come again? The Ottoman Empire fell at the end of the First World War. The Armenian genocide occurred during the First World War. How could these have resulted in WWI?

The origins of WW2 can be traced to the outcome of WWI but yes, the Second World War was not an inevitability, it was the spineless cowardice and political naivetee of the Western powers, primarily France and Britain, that made it inevitable. There would have been no war if France had acted promptly to the German reoccupation of the Rhineland and if Mr. Chamberlain had not been so intent on pleasing Hitler at Munich.

Even after Poland was invaded and France and Great Britain declared war they could not get themselves to attack Germany while it was preoccupied in it's aggression. There is no way the Wehrmacht at that point could have sustained a two-front war.

And yes, American isolationism did exacerbate the situation. It took Pearl Harbor for the buggers to come to their senses.

[Gaius Octavius]

G xx, I don't think that "spineless cowardice" or "political naivete' are the proper terms to use here. Remember that the British and French populations had the carnage of WWI fresh in their memories.

 

The 'buggers', as you so quaintly put it, were involved prior to their official entry into the war - Lend/Lease.

[Julius Ratus]

Had France and Englan treated Germany decently after WWI, then Hitler would never had a chance at election. That was his political platform. Germany didn't start WWI, it was a squabble between Austria-Hungary and Serbia that went back to the Balkan Wars of the past century. When Austria tried bullying Serbia, Russia intervened. Only then did Germany ente the war. Had Wilson's fourteen points been followed, WWII would not have happened, at least not in the manner that it did.

 

On to the point of the thread. The U.S. have been reletively isolationistic throughout their history up until rather recently. It was WWII and the resulting Cold War that really made the U.S. the "World Police" that they are now seen as.

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

G xx, I don't think that "spineless cowardice" or "political naivete' are the proper terms to use here. Remember that the British and French populations had the carnage of WWI fresh in their memories.

 

The 'buggers', as you so quaintly put it, were involved prior to their official entry into the war - Lend/Lease.

By "buggers" I meant the isolationist party in the U.S Congress and Senate, not America as a whole.

If France and Great Britain had sorted out Hitler in '37 or '38 it is unlikely we would have seen the carnage of WWI again. Instead what we saw was an even more frightful carnage of WW2

[Gaius Octavius]

G xx, I don't think that "spineless cowardice" or "political naivete' are the proper terms to use here. Remember that the British and French populations had the carnage of WWI fresh in their memories.

 

The 'buggers', as you so quaintly put it, were involved prior to their official entry into the war - Lend/Lease.

By "buggers" I meant the isolationist party in the U.S Congress and Senate, not America as a whole.

If France and Great Britain had sorted out Hitler in '37 or '38 it is unlikely we would have seen the carnage of WWI again. Instead what we saw was an even more frightful carnage of WW2

 

I really do agree with what you say in essence. I just have a quibble with the way you say it. So, Mussolini was the hero of pre WWII?

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

France and Great Britain had sorted out Hitler in '37 or '38 it is unlikely we would have seen the carnage of WWI again. Instead what we saw was an even more frightful carnage of WW2

 

How exactly could have France and Britain 'sorted' out Hitler in 1937 and 1938? You know people tend over look the fact that the Soviet Union itself stated that it was its policy to make the world communist or more to the point communist and subserviet to the Soviet state. Also during this time the Soviets were committing mass genocide with the man-made famine in the Ukraine, one of historys worst crimes. Now the Allies wanted a stronger Germany at first to buffer themselves from the Soviet Union, and it seems to me they wanted Germany as a friend until Germany started getting friendly with the Soviet Union. But by then it was too late and war was ineviable. Its easy for us to look back at history and say 'well why didn't they stop Hitler when they had the chance" but from their point of view they saw the nightmare that was going on in the Soviet Union and the stated aim of Stalin and the Soviet state and they needed a buffer and that buffer was Germany. But the monster they helped create turned on them.

 

Also on a side note one of the biggest and tragic hypocrises of the war was the universal scorn for Germany, which they rightfully deserved after their invasion of Poland, but their seems to be no mention of even a whimper of protest against the Soviet Union's invasion of not only of Poland but also of Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

France and Great Britain had sorted out Hitler in '37 or '38 it is unlikely we would have seen the carnage of WWI again. Instead what we saw was an even more frightful carnage of WW2

 

After WW1 Europe was pretty much destroyed. How would these countries just go around and start 'sorting each other out'? It doesn't work that way, at least not when your country is a complete wreck.